A Busetti On Ebay 60 Mile Range

banbury frank

Banned
Jan 13, 2011
1,565
5
Hi steve

Interesting are they the same company offering twin wheel drive

Utter Rubbish Impossible Range Hear we go again Ebay

Crap cheap bike

Frank
 
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D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
As with the others, their figures don't add up. They mention a 600w economy mode, which would draw about 16 amps - giving a running time of an hour and a bit. Assuming that their top speed of 33mph comes from it's 1800w mode, one would assume that the 600w speed is a lot slower - say 20mph, which would give a range of about 25miles. The only way they could get the range stated would be to cut the power right down and run on a flat road.

Today on my Sunlova, I did 54.5miles in 5.4hrs and used only 4.256AH, which gives me a range of over 100 miles. How does my bike do that? Easy: Just switch off and pedal, because this bike is very easy to pedal without power (are you reading NRG?). I now only use power for going up steep or long hills.
 

Trex 850

Pedelecer
Feb 2, 2011
53
1
What Sunlova model is that?
Sounds like the ideal model for me as I REALLY need to upgrade from my izip trailz,, had a scary moment yesterday on the way to work, approached a set of traffic lights and found even though I had released the thumb throttle, the bike wouldn't slow down !!!=- had to apply both brakes and with both feet down managed to reach over and flick the switch on the rear rack to centre position,,,,,
Basically, its buggered,, throttle just goes to full when activated and stays there until the switch is flicked or the battery is removed from the rack mount.
 

NRG

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 6, 2009
2,592
10
Hi d8veh

Yes, I'm reading but I'm not sure what your point is....?

I'm impressed you managed to ride 54.4 miles, it would have nearly killed me even with power ;) I'm slowly building up the distance, 30miles is the most I've done so far in one journey but please don't believe for a moment your range from the battery is 100miles.

The range from the battery is measured when you are actually using it, other wise I could just as well that say all of my bikes have an infinite range (well rider permitting!)....if I don't use the battery.

That's very different from using the motor to assist constantly over the distance travelled. Yesterday I rode 22miles most of it with the power off for one light out on the battery, or 2.36Wh / mile. If I extrapolate that to 55miles then I would consume 130Wh....as The Panasonic has a 260Wh battery my range all of a sudden is now 110 Miles! This is just false, that's not the range from the battery at all! The best I've got is 35miles done over several trips and using economy mode.


I know from first hand experience the Panasonic system has less drag, now you may think your Sunlova / Bafang motor is low drag (and that's OK) but its not in comparison and your very own 'spin down' video proves it, the wheel stops far sooner than a normal bike wheel would...there's drag present in the motor due to the rotating planet gears.

Now, personally you may not find that to be an issue and can ride a fair old distance with one but I find it noticeable and many others on the forum have complained bitterly about it in the past...while I'm OK with my Alien and Peugeot on the flat for a few miles at speeds of 12mph or less it becomes very tiring after a while and any slight incline or head wind makes things uncomfortable.

Fitting a normal wheel to either or simply riding the PCS transforms the experience for me and I can ride further and without the same amount of struggle.

Anyhow continue to enjoy your bike as I will mine.


Regarding the Busettii, the batteries are 13Ah@48v on their web site so a capacity of 624Wh. 86miles would mean a consumption of 7.25Wh / Mile.

That's not outside the realms of possibility. Given flat terrain, favourable weather conditions, power and speed cut right back it may be possible. I've managed to get to 8.5Wh / Mile on my Peugeot over flat terrain so its not that unbelievable.
 

morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
2,163
119
Worcestershire
www.cyclecharge.org.uk
Been there, got the t-shirt! I bought a bike off eBay last year that made some pretty wild claims and the bike failed to deliver on all of them. I would take anything you see on eBay as marketing hype.
 

morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
2,163
119
Worcestershire
www.cyclecharge.org.uk
As with the others, their figures don't add up. They mention a 600w economy mode, which would draw about 16 amps - giving a running time of an hour and a bit. Assuming that their top speed of 33mph comes from it's 1800w mode, one would assume that the 600w speed is a lot slower - say 20mph, which would give a range of about 25miles. The only way they could get the range stated would be to cut the power right down and run on a flat road.

Today on my Sunlova, I did 54.5miles in 5.4hrs and used only 4.256AH, which gives me a range of over 100 miles. How does my bike do that? Easy: Just switch off and pedal, because this bike is very easy to pedal without power (are you reading NRG?). I now only use power for going up steep or long hills.
That's really how e-bikes should be used isn't it. The power should compliment pedalling not replace it. As you say, the range can be extended much longer that way if you only use assistance when you need it.

Does your Sunlova have variable levels of pedal assistance? My bike does and the lowest setting still provides a nice boost. I'm not sure how long the battery would last if I left that on the entire journey, something I will have to find out.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,763
30,349
That 86 miles is not a world record, a Kalkhoff team of three riders covered 100 miles on the Pro Connect using the 10 Ah Panasonic battery on one charge. I'm sure I recall that the ride in Germany had official observers.

Forum member Fecn rode an Eastbourne round trip with a fit friend, trip reported in here, both on Kalkhoffs. His friend completed the 62 miles round trip without emptying the 10 Ah battery, so even fit newcomers to e-biking can achieve very long distances.

I've reached 60 miles on single rides in my late 60s, but using 2 x Li-ion 10 Ah eZee batteries and part of the charge of an NiMh 9 Ah eZee battery! :D
.
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
My bike is the Sunlova E-8F26M03S with extensive mods. Electric Scooter, Electric Bike, Electric Cycle from Sunlova
I added a handlebar switch to cut the power from the controller, otherwise it's on about 75% full power all the time with the pedal sensor. When I have it on all the time, I still get good range by pedalling over 14mph , after which there's no power assist. The nearer you are to that limit, the leess power it uses. It gives increasing power as you slow down (up hills or into the wind)
NRG, I only wrote that because I notice you often like to mention that the hub motors that you rode seem to be difficult to pedal without assist and it gives the impression that they are are all bad, but some (probably most now) are definitely OK It worries me when you say things like that because everything else you say is very factual and helpful.
On the above-mentioned journey, I did 40 miles before even switching on the power - and I'm 103kg and not very fit. I couldn't have done that if it were difficult to pedal, and I was carrying an additional 6kg in my panniers. I'm presently building up strength to tow a heavy trailer the 50 miles to the Tour de Presteign and back.
Your point about the range is exactly what I meant: When you're pedalling, any claim about range is meaningless.
I agree that the range claimed in the advert is feasible on a flat road at low speed, but they give the impression that you can go 33mph and still get a good range. At its max speed and power of 1800w, the motor will only last for about 25 mins giving a range of about 15 miles - if you're lucky.

Those people that mentioned Ebay: It's not Ebay's fault that these people make these claims about their products. Busettii and the others have their own websites, where they make the same claims and it seems more of a problem with ebikes, where it's even happened on this forum Most sellers on Ebay are very honest and helpful. Many advertisers wherever they advertise do their best to embellish their products, but this isn't so easy on Ebay because the buyers publish feedback, which will quickly expose any untruths, and Paypal is very quick to give the buyer the benefit of the doubt and return their money leaving the seller to fight it out with them. So, in general, I trust Ebay sellers more than others. After 9 years of using Ebay and about 700 items, I've never had a deal with an unsatisfactory outcome!
 
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Biged

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 7, 2010
269
0
Watnall, Nottingham
It looks quite a decent bike, the ebay seller has good feedback (though not perfect) and lets face it his claims are no more an exaggeration that most ebike suppliers, i know my Agattu does no where near the mileage stated by Kalkhoff/50 cycles.
Why oh why is it almost twice the U.S. price though?
Another case of rip off Britain? :(
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,763
30,349
i know my Agattu does no where near the mileage stated by Kalkhoff/50 cycles.
Why oh why is it almost twice the U.S. price though?
Another case of rip off Britain? :(
Two things that commonly contribute to the UK/US price differences:

1) Sales volume of a market five times the size of ours.

2) Local sales tax in the USA is at low percentages and varies by state, VAT (now at 20%) is a burden here that adds considerably.

Maybe not the whole answer but accounting for a large part of the difference.

On the Agattu range with the standard 10 Ah battery, I had no difficulty in repeatedly getting about 35 miles in my hilly area without trying for economy, and showed that 50 miles plus was possible on moderate territory by tryig a bit for economy. A to B magazine reviewing it had these corresponding results using slightly different riding techniques, 30 miles normal and 46 miles economy riding.

I seem to remember the 50cycles site had 50 miles quoted for that battery, so definitely possible, especially when a fit newcomer to the bike achieved 62 miles.

One problem is that so many owners have changed the rear sprocket to achieve higher assist speeds. This of course wrecks the range potential as I warned when the Agattu was first introduced. All the riding mentioned above was with the standard sprocket and gearing.
.
 

stevebills

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 14, 2010
443
4
The Busettii website looks dodgy and when u google map there address it finds a tyre company and they look like they just popped up from nowhere...
They remind me of the bodybuilding supplement companies that make wild claims in the USA...
with there before and after pictures and when we really no that to get massive u need to take steriods and growth hormone :D
 
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Streethawk

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 12, 2011
634
15
Forum member Fecn rode an Eastbourne round trip with a fit friend, trip reported in here, both on Kalkhoffs. His friend completed the 62 miles round trip without emptying the 10 Ah battery, so even fit newcomers to e-biking can achieve very long distances.
True. I suspect i may be able to ride almost any distance on the Aurora on low assist because my light pedalling exceeds the assist speed all the time on the flat.

When spring/summer finally arrives i'll try some VERY long rides.
 

Biged

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 7, 2010
269
0
Watnall, Nottingham
One problem is that so many owners have changed the rear sprocket to achieve higher assist speeds. This of course wrecks the range potential as I warned when the Agattu was first introduced. All the riding mentioned above was with the standard sprocket and gearing.
.

I don't have bog standard sprockets.
When i tried out the bike at 50cycles i mentioned the high cadence level in top gear and that i had seen that other riders had changed the rear sprocket to lower this, i asked 'what was their opinion'
Their mechanic said a better option was to change the front sprocket size and that the sprocket size had been reduced in the past, he said it would be a straightforward job to put the 'original' sized sprocket on during assembly at no charge. I agreed and this was done.
I am big and i am heavy and i know this all has a relevance, but i am not particularly unfit and never use the bike on full assistance even though its fairly hilly where i live.
Still not managed above 25 miles though!
Would the sprocket change have made that much difference?:eek:
 

stevebills

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 14, 2010
443
4
I don't have bog standard sprockets.
When i tried out the bike at 50cycles i mentioned the high cadence level in top gear and that i had seen that other riders had changed the rear sprocket to lower this, i asked 'what was their opinion'
Their mechanic said a better option was to change the front sprocket size and that the sprocket size had been reduced in the past, he said it would be a straightforward job to put the 'original' sized sprocket on during assembly at no charge. I agreed and this was done.
I am big and i am heavy and i know this all has a relevance, but i am not particularly unfit and never use the bike on full assistance even though its fairly hilly where i live.
Still not managed above 25 miles though!
Would the sprocket change have made that much difference?:eek:
Its called the chainring and a 44 tooth changed to a 48t can give you maybe 2 or 3 mph top speed
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,763
30,349
Any rear sprocket change that raises the cut-off speed makes a very big difference.

The standard system starts to phase down power at 9.4 mph and ends it just before 15 mph. Those are critical speeds, it's quite easy to ride a free running bike at 15 mph not using current, but much more difficult at 18 mph for example due to the non-linear effects of wind resistance. Staying at 15 mph with slightly raised gearing means current is being used where none was before.

This means that a small increase in assist cut-off speed has a disproportionate effect on consumption, both in the highest power continuing for longer beyond 9.4 mph, and also beyond 15 mph. For many riders it's the difference between riding some of the time without power assist or never riding without power assist. For you it could easily account for the 5 miles discrepancy, and your size and weight count too of course. I'm 5' 6" and 66 kilos (10 stones 6 lbs).
.
 
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Biged

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 7, 2010
269
0
Watnall, Nottingham
Any rear sprocket change that raises the cut-off speed makes a very big difference.


This means that a small increase in assist cut-off speed has a disproportionate effect on consumption, both in the highest power continuing for longer beyond 9.4 mph, and also beyond 15 mph. For many riders it's the difference between riding some of the time without power assist or never riding without power assist. For you it could easily account for the 5 miles discrepancy, and your size and weight count too of course. I'm 5' 6" and 66 kilos (10 stones 6 lbs).
.
I can see that, though like i said it was a front sprocket (chainring?) that was changed, i think the original was 37T changed to 41T, does that sound right?
From what i can tell, cycling next to my wife's Dover it's about a gear difference in cadence, so if i ignored 8th gear that would be the same as standard?
I'm 6' 2" and around 16stones 7lbs though not what anyone calls fat, always had at least a 10" chest to waist size difference, still like you carrying half of you again though!
 

stevebills

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 14, 2010
443
4
I can see that, though like i said it was a front sprocket (chainring?) that was changed, i think the original was 37T changed to 41T, does that sound right?
From what i can tell, cycling next to my wife's Dover it's about a gear difference in cadence, so if i ignored 8th gear that would be the same as standard?
I'm 6' 2" and around 16stones 7lbs though not what anyone calls fat, always had at least a 10" chest to waist size difference, still like you carrying half of you again though!

My waist has always been smaller than my chest :D