Am i just unlucky ?

[Martinm]

I purchased 2 years ago a 36v E-bike from Powerscoots which rode wonderfully and i was pleasantly surprised as it took went up all the hlls with ease on my cycle route to work .. i live on the Isle of Wight with some quite steep and long hills. Unfortunately the battery died after a year and getting a replacement seemed impossible so after reading the forums for a considerable length of time i decided that the Ezee Forza would be the most suitable for my needs - hill climbing !
I have had the bike about 6 months now and for me this bike does not do hills as well as i had hoped. Its either a real struggle getting up the hills or it stops and i have to restart it about 2-3 times up each hill - when i do restart it the bike only lasts about 20 seconds before stopping again. Which is making my journey times longer.
Think perhaps my electric bike days are coming to an end - time to learn to drive !!

 

[flecc]

Sounds like it's the battery that's letting you down Martin, something that's been happening a lot on these lately. There will be improved ones befor elong, but of course that's of little help to you at the moment.

Apart from the battery issue, the Forza is one of the most powerful bikes around, so shouldn't present climb problems compared with most e-bikes on the market.
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[Martinm]

Do you mean happening a lot on this particular model or Ebikes in general ?
Why are these companies allowed to sell inferior products , its not as though the price of the bikes are cheap !
I was hoping someone was going to say that the Forza i got was faulty but your saying i just have to live with stopping my bike 3-4 times up the hills

 

[Joe]

ezee bikes in general using that battery. it is disappointing that such significant investments for bikes such as these are not providing durable transport. i would certainly attempt to get a replacement battery directly from ezee.

 

[hobo1]

Sorry to hear you have been having trouble with your Forza battery Martinm. I was lucky & obtained an NiMH battery in the last batch from 50 Cycles: & the Forza now really does deliver its full potential on hills. Though I am still using my Li-ion battery (nine months old) with reasonable performance. I did have a few cut outs on long steep hills, but if I kept my AFC down to 41/2 cut outs were kept to a minimum. I now use the Li-ion for flat & small inclines & leave the hard work on hills to the NiMH. I hope you obtain a new battery soon, be it NiMH or the new Li-ion, & get back on the road again.

Cheers, David.

 

[flecc]

Do you mean happening a lot on this particular model or Ebikes in general ?
Why are these companies allowed to sell inferior products , its not as though the price of the bikes are cheap !
I was hoping someone was going to say that the Forza i got was faulty but your saying i just have to live with stopping my bike 3-4 times up the hills

It wasn't a matter of deliberately selling inferior products, but this e-bike manufacturer let down by the battery technology being unable to live up to the battery maufacturer's promises. This problem is confined to the most powerful bikes which drain the most current. There's some action being taken behind the scenes at the moment to bring in much better batteries, but they are having to be thoroughly tested first, since no-one, least of all the bike manufacturers, wants a repeat of this damaging situation.

The previous battery type, NiMh, was always reliable, but the Lithium types promised higher performance with longer range and seemed to perform well in lab testing conditions and on lower powered applications, so were widely adopted, and the production of NiMh wound down. We're now in a situation where we are caught out with not enough NiMh availability and Li-ion batteries that have failed.

I'm also a victim of this, having been through three batteries on two bikes at a rate of six months each like you. I don't think we'll have to wait much longer for a better replacement though.
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[Martinm]

"The new eZee Forza is our high end, limited production model designed specifically for the discerning, experienced cyclist who is looking for comfort and performance. The eZee Forza is a fully-equipped cutting edge design with no equal in the electric bike scene. "

Took this from the site i purchsed my Forza from...true they dont mention the battery there but its hardly cutting edge when you have to stop and start four times up a hill is it ! Perhap

I admire your patience in this really saying that a better battery is coming soon doesnt account for the fact that like myself you have spent probably thousands of pounds on products which are going to be staying in my shed from now on !

 

[fishingpaul]

I would be very interested to see what a solicitor would make of this,under the sale of goods act,items must be fit for purpose,although the batteries are only warrantied for six months,they have continued to be sold despite concerns, that the lithium batteries are not suitable for the higher powered ezee motors,was any testing ever done before the sale of these bikes, surely someone should be held responsible for this.if this happened in the motor trade, the manufacturer would have to recall all models affected and replace the faulty part free of charge.

 

[flecc]

surely someone should be held responsible for this.if this happened in the motor trade, the manufacturer would have to recall all models affected and replace the faulty part free of charge.

The motor trade have over a hundred years of experience behind them, and often use well established technology like lead acid batteries for example.

However, a recall would be unlikely for a battery issue. Motor industry recalls are on safety grounds when there's a threat to life and limb. In technical failure cases, the usual recourse is an instruction to dealers and the design and provision of replacement parts where necessary. Even that doesn't happen sometimes, viz some of the issues surrounding certain PSA models, the 207 and 307 Peugeots for example, and the resulting customer disatisfaction. I have other examples as well.

The e-bike industry has very little experience, for most of it just seven years or less, and the peculiar needs of these vehicles, like lightweight batteries for example, means using relatively new and untried technologies. Wait another ninety years and the comparison with the motor industry would be valid.
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[Martinm]

I don't think that just because the e-bike industry has only had a few years experience is any reason for companies to be selling inferior products.Are we to be the guinea pigs to keep buying new bikes just incase the next new one is the real deal !

I may be getting the wrong idea here but dont think companies should be selling batteries ' not fit for the purpose' for me to have to replace my battery approx every 6 months...that is if i can even find somewhere that sells them ..meaning my bike is useless.

I even decided to give it another try today because i really do like the idea of cycling with a little assistance but it kept happening again 3 to 4 times up each hill stopping and starting, infact in the end it became dangerous as everytime the battery died the lights went out and it was getting quite dark !

 

[flecc]

I don't think that just because the e-bike industry has only had a few years experience is any reason for companies to be selling inferior products.Are we to be the guinea pigs to keep buying new bikes just incase the next new one is the real deal !

I may be getting the wrong idea here but dont think companies should be selling batteries ' not fit for the purpose' for me to have to replace my battery approx every 6 months...that is if i can even find somewhere that sells them ..meaning my bike is useless.

I even decided to give it another try today because i really do like the idea of cycling with a little assistance but it kept happening again 3 to 4 times up each hill stopping and starting, infact in the end it became dangerous as everytime the battery died the lights went out and it was getting quite dark !

As I said before Martin, they weren't setting out to sell inferior products, nor were they intending to sell something not fit for purpose, since that damages their company. The principal of this company that he personally built up is intelligent enough to know that, and he is committed to his products, to the extent of riding them for thousands of kilometres. He is extremely upset about this situation which has seriously damaged his company, but there are good reasons why I cannot tell you precisely in detail what is being done about it at the moment.

As with everything electrical or mechanical, even with the most careful design and testing, these things can and do unexpectedly happen to any product, something that as a lifelong engineer I understand and have seen on numerous occasions. As an industry gains experience with a product the incidence of these problems naturally reduces, so being a new industry is relevant, contrary to your belief.

Consumers generally don't appreciate these things and get irate in the way you have. We are aware of how this affects the hill climbing on these bikes through constant cutting out, but getting angry doesn't solve the problem. The work to solve it is being progressed with urgency, and that's why I am able to be calm about the situation which has also affected me so much, since I know the solution is on the way. The interested parties have absolutely no reason to delay it for a second since each moment can bring another angry customer and further damage the business.
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[burncycle]

The main issue around all of this is the price of the batteries really.
With the battery costing 1/4 of the price of the bike it is a big outlay to replace this item. If say the price could be halved then people would be more happy to forget the issue of a poor battery and I think ebike would sell much better !

 

[Martinm]

they weren't setting out to sell inferior products, nor were they intending to sell something not fit for purpose, since that damages their company. The principal of this company that he personally built up is intelligent enough to know that, and he is committed to his products, to the extent of riding them for thousands of kilometres. He is extremely upset about this situation which has seriously damaged his company,
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I could totally understand what your saying if they held their hands up and said yes this bike with its current battery is unsuitable for hills etc.... as i still see and others like it being sold.

He is extremely upset , yeah so am i at wasting £1400 which is not a sum of money i spend freely.I could of spent 2 years getting a bus around with that amount !

 

[flecc]

I could totally understand what your saying if they held their hands up and said yes this bike with its current battery is unsuitable for hills etc.... as i still see and others like it being sold.

He is extremely upset , yeah so am i at wasting £1400 which is not a sum of money i spend freely.I could of spent 2 years getting a bus around with that amount !

The bikes the manufacturer has sent out more recently since these troubles do have battery improvements which lessen the chance of a cutout occurring on steep hills. Amongst other things the safety cutoff voltage point has been changed and the bike models most prone to this have had other alterations like motor internal gearing changes which further protect against it.

Therefore the bikes being sold currently are not the same ones being cynically passed on. However, these were immediate measures, so now a more tested final solution is being worked out to make absolutely sure this doesn't happen again, not just on today's modified models but on bikes like yours as well. An improved battery will get your bike running and climbing hills, so your £1400 isn't wasted, though a part of the battery cost is of course.

From your mention of the steep hills, I'd guess that you are in the southern half of the island, or ride there usually. Some of those hills are quite something, though fortunately the roads don't go directly up all of them.
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[Martinm]

Well its good that the bikes being sold now have had modifications (why am i so impatient) .... should've waited a few months

I am actually on the north part of the island, luckily not so many hills but more than enough for me !

Guess i will just have to play the waiting game for a new battery.

Thanks for your answers..very knowledgeable as always Flecc.

 

[flecc]

Thanks Martin, I don't think you will have to wait very long at all for some good news on this issue and some associated matters. All will be much clearer when that happens.

I used to tackle those southern island hills the lazy way when a teenager, on a motorbike! Not so many years ago when I had a boat in the channel, I'd tie up at Bembridge or Yarmouth and have long walks into the island, and on odd occasions I'd use the inflatable to go up the river to Newport town quay to buy provisions. Never liked Cowes, noisy place at times, but I've always had a soft spot for the island.
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