Another Boris Johnson consequence

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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When Johnson was elected London's mayor he immediately pursued the populist idea of a replacement Routenmaster open rear platform bus, against all professional advice. Open rear platforms, once acceptable on the pre-war RT buses had proved unsafe with with the higher speed RM buses so had been dropped in all modern bus designs due to speed and safety considerations.

But he persisted and we then got them in the form of the specially designed and most expensive buses London had ever paid for. Worse still was that the rear platform had to have doors that close for safety reasons and also had to have conductors in the central London area to monitor that rear platform safety, so they were far more expensive to run.

Now it's been shown that the conductors bring no operating efficiency so all 100 of them are being made redundant and the buses will run with the rear doors closed. The whole exercise has obviously been a very expensive waste of time.

I'd like to think we'll now be able to specify a more realistically designed hybrid bus in its place, though the costs will probably mean we'll be stuck with this design. Hopefully we'll never get another goon like Boris Johnson as London mayor.
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lectureral

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Hope you don't mind - I've used this elsewhere - I'm always keen to see these sort of follow-ups of splashy popularist moments.
 
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tillson

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May 29, 2008
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When Johnson was elected London's mayor he immediately pursued the populist idea of a replacement Routenmaster open rear platform bus, against all professional advice. Open rear platforms, once acceptable on the pre-war RT buses had proved unsafe with with the higher speed RM buses so had been dropped in all modern bus designs due to speed and safety considerations.

But he persisted and we then got them in the form of the specially designed and most expensive buses London had ever paid for. Worse still was that the rear platform had to have doors that close for safety reasons and also had to have conductors in the central London area to monitor that rear platform safety, so they were far more expensive to run.

Now it's been shown that the conductors bring no operating efficiency so all 100 of them are being made redundant and the buses will run with the rear doors closed. The whole exercise has obviously been a very expensive waste of time.

I'd like to think we'll now be able to specify a more realistically designed hybrid bus in its place, though the costs will probably mean we'll be stuck with this design. Hopefully we'll never get another goon like Boris Johnson as London mayor.
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I don't live in London and have never seen or used such a bus. However, I do like the idea of a nod to the past iconic image of a London double decker. Wherever possible, I think we should make every effort to preserve or acknowledge these things. I quite admire Johnsons intentions with the bus.

I also like the idea of retaining the traditional telephone box. They are used as micro libraries or defib stations around here.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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I don't live in London and have never seen or used such a bus. However, I do like the idea of a nod to the past iconic image of a London double decker. Wherever possible, I think we should make every effort to preserve or acknowledge these things. I quite admire Johnsons intentions with the bus.

I also like the idea of retaining the traditional telephone box. They are used as micro libraries or defib stations around here.
I wouldn't argue these points since we are at opposite ends with our views on them so could never reach any agreement. I want to get rid of our obsession with history and the consequent Theme Park Britain that accompanies it.

This country seems inexorably en route to a history themed tourist destination future. What a miserable future for our young, as waiters, porters, chambermaids etc., or dressed in historic costumes in theme parks.
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Kudoscycles

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I don't live in London and have never seen or used such a bus. However, I do like the idea of a nod to the past iconic image of a London double decker. Wherever possible, I think we should make every effort to preserve or acknowledge these things. I quite admire Johnsons intentions with the bus.

I also like the idea of retaining the traditional telephone box. They are used as micro libraries or defib stations around here.
Or Yuppie shower enclosure next to your obligatory Towie accessory,the garden jacuzzi/hot tub.
KudosDave
Ps...hate hot tubs myself.
 

tillson

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I wouldn't argue these points since we are at opposite ends with our views on them so could never reach any agreement. I want to get rid of our obsession with history and the consequent Theme Park Britain that accompanies it.

This country seems inexorably en route to a history themed tourist destination future. What a miserable future for our young, as waiters, porters, chambermaids etc., or dressed in historic costumes in theme parks.
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Is it not possible to pay tribute to our past, acknowledge and preserve iconic images, whilst simultaneously progressing?

We have a lot to be proud of from our past.
 
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flecc

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Is it not possible to pay tribute to our past, acknowledge and preserve iconic images, whilst simultaneously progressing?

We have a lot to be proud of from our past.
I don't think it is on the evidence to date. That we have failed miserably in terms of modernisation since 1945 is beyond dispute. That we have succeeded in terms of promoting our historical aspects is also beyond dispute. The two seem incompatible in Britain and I think we need to decide which future route we take.

And in any case, I would question the validity of your last sentence. So much of what we are supposed to be proud of was based on underlying evil, and some of the "history" is fake as well. I doubt we are any better historically than any other western country, and even if we were, in what way is it relevant to the modern world and our future?
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anotherkiwi

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We have a lot to be proud of from our past.
Yes like almost losing the Maori wars for example. And completely losing the Afghanistan colonisation attempt (a.k.a. getting your asses kicked)? Oh and building a snobby boys only high school with the windows facing south, in New Zealand... I could go on and on and on (and probably will, Brexit is such fun...).
 
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tillson

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Yes like almost losing the Maori wars for example. And completely losing the Afghanistan colonisation attempt (a.k.a. getting your asses kicked)? Oh and building a snobby boys only high school with the windows facing south, in New Zealand... I could go on and on and on (and probably will, Brexit is such fun...).
I suspect you'd be pi$$ing in your pants and calling out for your mummy faced with a similar situation.

I work with men who have fought in Afghanistan. Their toe nail clippings are worth 10 of your sort.
 

anotherkiwi

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Anglo-Afghan_War

The second time around wasn't a good idea either you should have asked the Russians/Soviets before trying again.

I have nothing against the men, they went to do the dirty work of the politicians who sent them there. All in the name of keeping the armement industry happy I guess.

My family did reply to your Queen's call a couple of times if I remember correctly and some of them didn't come back home. An ANZAC soldier's blood doesn't have the same value as and English soldier on your scale of course. Canon fodder from the colonies to be fed to the machine of your higher moral standing.
 
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tillson

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Anglo-Afghan_War

The second time around wasn't a good idea either you should have asked the Russians/Soviets before trying again.

I have nothing against the men, they went to do the dirty work of the politicians who sent them there. All in the name of keeping the armement industry happy I guess.

My family did reply to your Queen's call a couple of times if I remember correctly and some of them didn't come back home. An ANZAC soldier's blood doesn't have the same value as and English soldier on your scale of course. Canon fodder from the colonies to be fed to the machine of your higher moral standing.
I agree with most of that and I must have taken your first post out of context, so I apologise for any offence caused.

I'm also sorry to hear that you lost family in the conflicts.

Best wishes.
 

timidtom

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When I'm working in West Africa I often spend a few minutes meditating in the War Graves cemetery at Fajara. There are the graves of the British crew of a flying boat which crashed into the sea off the coast of Senegal, the grave of a French colonel of the Foreign legion, and dozens of graves of young Gambians who died fighting for what they called 'the Mother Country'. All are equally worthy of respect, all move me to tears. I feel it strange that the descendants of most of those buried there would be regarded as 'aliens' if they now attempted to visit the country they fought to defend.
 

Kudoscycles

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Apr 15, 2011
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Is it not possible to pay tribute to our past, acknowledge and preserve iconic images, whilst simultaneously progressing?

We have a lot to be proud of from our past.
Fortunately the Chinese choose to have short memories but the East India trading company that stalwart of British commerce used to buy from the Chinese,tea,fine silks,beautiful porcelain,silverware.
Unfortunately we had nothing to sell the Chinese so the balance of trade was imbalanced,so we made them into opium addicts. We collected opium from the poppy fields of what is now Pakistan and Afghanistan and sailed onto Canton to unload this hideous cargo,exchanging it for their lovely products,sailing back to Europe and making a fortune.
The mayor of Canton objected to this trade so we sacked the city of Canton,starved the population and shot anyone who tried to exit.
Not our finest hour,but as I say other atrocities in China ,committed by other nations,has blurred the Canton episode in the memory.
KudosDave
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Back on the subject of Boris Johnson's troublesome new Routemaster bus, yet another big problem. The design doesn't include any opening windows, so this week passengers were enduring upper deck temperatures 5 degrees C above the legal limit for transporting animals.

TfL have instituted a £2 million program to retrofit them with opening windows and say they will be fitted by September.

Just in time for Winter.
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mike killay

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How on earth did a designer forget about opening windows?
It's not as if they are some new revolutionary idea.
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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How on earth did a designer forget about opening windows?
It's not as if they are some new revolutionary idea.
Seems it's what happens when a car magazine, Autocar, are invited to arrange the design of a bus Mike. Several professional bus makers had soon lost interest in designing a new version open rear platform bus, Volvo even refusing to consider it, especially with the added complication of it being a front engined hybrid, so it ended up with a combination of Capoco Design who were sponsored by Autocar magazine, and sports car company Aston Martin. Those two shared the eventual £25,000 prize for the design, but the buses are built in Northern Ireland by Wrightbus. They cost £355,000 each, a normal double decker at the same time of this design contract costed about £150,000. Each bus when using conductors costed an extra £62,000 per annum.
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tillson

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May 29, 2008
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Back on the subject of Boris Johnson's troublesome new Routemaster bus, yet another big problem. The design doesn't include any opening windows, so this week passengers were enduring upper deck temperatures 5 degrees C above the legal limit for transporting animals.

TfL have instituted a £2 million program to retrofit them with opening windows and say they will be fitted by September.

Just in time for Winter.
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It's not unusual to not have opening windows. Many coaches don't, they have air conditioning instead. Have these busses been fitted with air-con?
 

KirstinS

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Back on the subject of Boris Johnson's troublesome new Routemaster bus, yet another big problem. The design doesn't include any opening windows, so this week passengers were enduring upper deck temperatures 5 degrees C above the legal limit for transporting animals.

TfL have instituted a £2 million program to retrofit them with opening windows and say they will be fitted by September.

Just in time for Winter.
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Just a second flecc but the window design I feel is a bit of a stretch to lay at Johnson's door

(P.S. I do feel a little sick that I appear to be defending the man, but this one specific point may be step far ?)
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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It's not unusual to not have opening windows. Many coaches don't, they have air conditioning instead. Have these busses been fitted with air-con?
They have an air cooling system, but it's wholly inadequate and has been causing compaints ever since their introduction. It can be a problem on electric vehicles of course due to the consumption demands. These hybrids are electrically driven, their 4 litre diesel being a charging engine for their lithium battery, not mechanically driving the bus.
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