Battery Repair & Recelling

chris301up

Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2009
226
14
Looks good Chris you will have to keep the forum up dated with their progress over the next couple of years, good to see you have got new cells all the same brand and not recycled mismatched ones. I haven't found much on them yet but looks like a China branded cell certainly one I have not heard of, quite a few China cells are now emerging and are being looked at as alternatives to the scarce branded ones we know.
I've just fitted battery and all seems to be fine. I will need to take it out for quite a long run to ensure that particular issue is sorted though. I do still have the ongoing problem of the handlebar LED lights dimming during use. I thought the battery being faulty may have been the cause but obviously not. Over the past few weeks I have stored the bike in the garage, as opposed to the shed, which is quite warm and dry in comparison. Maybe, just maybe, there is still a little damp within the electrics somewhere? My next problem to sort during the cold winter months.
 
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Thorls1

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jan 18, 2022
15
2
I've just fitted battery and all seems to be fine. I will need to take it out for quite a long run to ensure that particular issue is sorted though. I do still have the ongoing problem of the handlebar LED lights dimming during use. I thought the battery being faulty may have been the cause but obviously not. Over the past few weeks I have stored the bike in the garage, as opposed to the shed, which is quite warm and dry in comparison. Maybe, just maybe, there is still a little damp within the electrics somewhere? My next problem to sort during the cold winter months.
Thanks for posting Chris…I too am faced with the dilemma of replacement at £325 from Halfords or an identical curved pack to fit the Carrera Crosscity made by Greencell for £165 or like you try to get it repaired
 

chris301up

Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2009
226
14
Just an update peeps. I've been using the bike since having the battery re-celled and have to say its working brilliantly. Thought I'd give it some time before reporting back. I don't travel too far now, only around 4 to 5 miles per trip, but the handlebar LED display unit remains lit throughout the ride now without any of the LED's going out. Much, much better overall and would highly recommend this guy to anyone considering this option.
 

cyclebuddy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 2, 2016
1,553
736
Beds & Norfolk
much better overall and would highly recommend this guy to anyone considering this option.
I still don't really follow this Chris. I'm going from memory here, but bear with me...

Your ebike, a 24v Argos Mantra cost new £499. You bought yours second hand, and said you weren't prepared to spend more on a replacement battery than the bike cost you... when the "official" replacement battery cost just £280 (although brand new 3P batteries were available for £130).

So I'm assuming here Chris the bike cost you less than £280 - possibly even less than £130, and you had the battery at least partially "recelled" for £80, from a bloke called "Steve" on Facebook whose page shows batteries he's recelled with mix'n'match salvaged/second-hand cells.

It's really not clear exactly what Steve did for £80.

I'm really pleased that you seem happy with whatever he did do for £80 that got you out of trouble. But I know for any of my own batteries (which each cost more than your entire e-bike would've cost new), £80 doesn't even cover the labour cost of opening and fault examination, never mind the cost of replacing fairly decent (but not premium) cells.

I hope your battery lasts you a long time Chris, but "Facebook Steve" won't be my "go-to" guy when I need a re-cell. It's all just a bit suspect.
 
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chris301up

Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2009
226
14
I still don't really follow this Chris. I'm going from memory here, but bear with me...

Your ebike, a 24v Argos Mantra cost new £499. You bought yours second hand, and said you weren't prepared to spend more on a replacement battery than the bike cost you... when the "official" replacement battery cost just £280 (although brand new 3P batteries were available for £130).

So I'm assuming here Chris the bike cost you less than £280 - possibly even less than £130, and you had the battery at least partially "recelled" for £80, from a bloke called "Steve" on Facebook whose page shows batteries he's recelled with mix'n'match salvaged/second-hand cells.

It's really not clear exactly what Steve did for £80.

I'm really pleased that you seem happy with whatever he did do for £80 that got you out of trouble. But I know for any of my own batteries (which each cost more than your entire e-bike would've cost new), £80 doesn't even cover the labour cost of opening and fault examination, never mind the cost of replacing fairly decent (but not premium) cells.

I hope your battery lasts you a long time Chris, but "Facebook Steve" won't be my "go-to" guy when I need a re-cell. It's all just a bit suspect.
I am very surprised with your comments. But each to their own. I didn't buy the bike from Argos, but yes, it was pre-owned and cost much more than you assume. Anyway, just to clarify, the battery was completely re-celled with brand new uprated and matching cells which now delivers in excess of 10aph. I have posted details of this in another post. The cost of the bike is totally irrelevant, and the bike I owned previously since 2007 cost a lot more but was far more unreliable. But we wont get into that debate now!

The reason I posted this is for those who, like me, possibly don't have the funds available to cover the cost of expensive replacement batteries and wish to go down the re-cell route. Something many of us now consider in these austere times and to get away from this 'throw away culture' that's now unfortunately developed. This guy has done a brilliant job and I wouldn't recommend him if he hadn't. He may not be your 'go to guy' but I'm sure many will consider this as a very cost effective alternative.
 

Tony1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 27, 2016
366
245
73
I am very surprised with your comments. But each to their own. I didn't buy the bike from Argos, but yes, it was pre-owned and cost much more than you assume. Anyway, just to clarify, the battery was completely re-celled with brand new uprated and matching cells which now delivers in excess of 10aph. I have posted details of this in another post. The cost of the bike is totally irrelevant, and the bike I owned previously since 2007 cost a lot more but was far more unreliable. But we wont get into that debate now!

The reason I posted this is for those who, like me, possibly don't have the funds available to cover the cost of expensive replacement batteries and wish to go down the re-cell route. Something many of us now consider in these austere times and to get away from this 'throw away culture' that's now unfortunately developed. This guy has done a brilliant job and I wouldn't recommend him if he hadn't. He may not be your 'go to guy' but I'm sure many will consider this as a very cost effective alternative.
Hi Steve,

I hope you get good service from your re-celled battery. Like you, I got very short shrift here and dire warnings when I first posted about the purchase of a second hand Somerby ebike by my partner so she could come with me on ebike jaunts. It really got up my nose to be lectured by 'experts' in doomsaying when I explained that the second hand barely used bike would not accept a charge because it had been left un charged for a year or more and that the BMS had shut down. I explained that I got past this by carefully monitoring current and voltage as I charged it for ten minutes via the output connectors. You would think I had found a nuclear reactor in a scrap yard and re-purposed it, judging by the hysterical warnings that I got about fire and brimstone, explosion and lethal consequences., along with warnings that no battery having got into a no charge state could ever work properly. What actually happened was that the battery charges perfectly, holds its charge well and the 10.5 Ahr ebike has run for thirty miles and never ever performed below par even at that kind of range. She loves it and it was a total bargain buy (£350). It flies up the steep hills around here too, easily keeping up with my 14 ahr crank motor set up - although it should since she weighs about 8 and a half stone while I weigh a third more.

Anyway - more power to you mate. Too much sour grapes and 'the computer say no' attitude around here from some posters. Obviously - you take a chance with a re-cell like yours. My purchase of an ebike conversion from a one man band outfit is the same (my bike not my partner's). Mine came from a guy in Durham called Billy Milburn. I've had huge enjoyment and some pretty long rides from the battery he made me and about a thousand miles covered so far without any major issues. He instantly replaced an LCD that started showing dead pixels and advised me how to sort out another minor niggle and solved the issue. I got a great bike conversion for £1099. Like yours, we will see how it goes in the long term.
 

cyclebuddy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 2, 2016
1,553
736
Beds & Norfolk
It really got up my nose to be lectured by 'experts' in doomsaying...
Anyway, just to clarify, the battery was completely re-celled with brand new uprated and matching cells which now delivers in excess of 10aph.
I don't think anyone here is "doomsaying". Everybody here, including me, is very happy that Chris is delighted to have his battery fixed.

What I'm questioning is this: Chris believes his battery is "recelled with brand new uprated and matching cells". Work out how many 18650 cells there are in a 10Ah 24v battery. Then look on AliExpress what even rubbish chinese cells cost. Add in labour and carriage both ways.

It's simple maths. The costs just don't stack up.

Maybe Facebook Steve is the foodbank equivalent of battery repair - i.e. a charitable cause?
Maybe I'm being thick, but my maths says Steve can't be making a living out of it IF he's using "brand new cells", and his facebook posts suggests he's not.

That's the point.
 
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Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
20,112
8,219
60
West Sx RH
The cheapest reputable good cells one can get is about £1.50 - £2 for good China brands.
24v will be about £60 & 36v about £80 just for the cells.
As mentioned by CB the guy isn't hardly making much money from a battery using all new cells or ones all of the same type (even if recycled good ones).
If the cells are recycled tested and pretty good cells, one still has to clean off the old spots etc, which is a time consuming.

For £80 Chris is v.happy he has a working battery, as we have said time will tell how good a deal he got. With regular use and a 18 month + usage then the price and battery will be deemed good in price and quality.

We know from the face thing link the pics looked far form impressive with many unmatched/differing cells, though Chris's pic appeared to show all looked the same.
It is easy though to make all cells look the same by a simple rewrap, though on the face of things it appears Chris may have found a cheap route for battery repairs/re-celling.
 
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chris301up

Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2009
226
14
The cheapest reputable good cells one can get is about £1.50 - £2 for good China brands.
24v will be about £60 & 36v about £80 just for the cells.
As mentioned by CB the guy isn't hardly making much money from a battery using all new cells or ones all of the same type (even if recycled good ones). For £80 Chris is v.happy he has a working battery, as we have said time will tell how good a deal he got. With regular use and a 18 month + usage then the price and battery will be deemed good in price and quality.

We know from the face thing link the pics looked far form impressive with many unmatched/differing cells, though Chris's pic appeared to show all looked the same.
It is easy though to make all cells look the same by a simple rewrap, though on the face of things it appears Chris may have found a cheap route for battery repairs/re-celling.
Yes. Everyone. I posted pics of the actual cells in my battery. All uprated and matching. I can only show evidence and speak as I find. You don't have to have your batteries re-celled there if you don't want to? I've recommended this because of the service and cost effectiveness. YOUR CHOICE! But, I will have other items serviced and re-celled by him in future.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,791
30,369
Hi Steve,

I hope you get good service from your re-celled battery. Like you, I got very short shrift here and dire warnings when I first posted about the purchase of a second hand Somerby ebike by my partner so she could come with me on ebike jaunts. It really got up my nose to be lectured by 'experts' in doomsaying when I explained that the second hand barely used bike would not accept a charge because it had been left un charged for a year or more and that the BMS had shut down. I explained that I got past this by carefully monitoring current and voltage as I charged it for ten minutes via the output connectors. You would think I had found a nuclear reactor in a scrap yard and re-purposed it, judging by the hysterical warnings that I got about fire and brimstone, explosion and lethal consequences., along with warnings that no battery having got into a no charge state could ever work properly. What actually happened was that the battery charges perfectly, holds its charge well and the 10.5 Ahr ebike has run for thirty miles and never ever performed below par even at that kind of range. She loves it and it was a total bargain buy (£350). It flies up the steep hills around here too, easily keeping up with my 14 ahr crank motor set up - although it should since she weighs about 8 and a half stone while I weigh a third more.

Anyway - more power to you mate. Too much sour grapes and 'the computer say no' attitude around here from some posters. Obviously - you take a chance with a re-cell like yours. My purchase of an ebike conversion from a one man band outfit is the same (my bike not my partner's). Mine came from a guy in Durham called Billy Milburn. I've had huge enjoyment and some pretty long rides from the battery he made me and about a thousand miles covered so far without any major issues. He instantly replaced an LCD that started showing dead pixels and advised me how to sort out another minor niggle and solved the issue. I got a great bike conversion for £1099. Like yours, we will see how it goes in the long term.
Batteries are chemical devices so not entirely predictable. You were lucky, the majority in similar situations are not, and the people you insult know that from long experience. So they warn of the worst possibilities because that is being responsible. Would you prefer they tell everyone the best possible outcome like yours when that simply isn't true for the majority?

It's precisely posts like your that have lost us large numbers of expert advisors over the 15 years of this forum when they get fed up with being unjustifiably maligned and give up.

It happened to me. As the first ever pedelecs member when this forum first opened and having power assisted bicycle experience in the trade from as far back as 1950, I was the principle advisor initially and continued helping over the following decade or so.

But all to often I found myself being contradicted, abused and/or insulted by new members, often with little or no experience, that I too increasingly withdrew from helping. Being a lifelong unassisted cyclist and with over 70 years knowledge of assisted cycling I still pop in out of interest and see posts where I could help. But most often I think "why bother?", knowing the aggravation that can result from time to time.

This discussion started with Chris advising use of a receller on the strength of no experience of them whatsoever. Now he's kindly come back to say the recelled battery is performing well, after 5 weeks use in very short trips of 4 to 5 miles, so no test at all as yet. We'll know far more when the battery has given two years of regular service, if it does.

We've seen a number of recellers come and go, failing even when charging far, far more than the £80 in this instance. The only company that has lasted does an excellent job to new battery standards costing around two thirds or so the cost of new battery. The principal there just makes a reasonable living, not from exorbitant profits but from a continuous flow of work using best components at fair prices.

So based on many years of experience that is our reliable knowledge on recelling and therefore the advice we normally give. But we couldn't in this instance since Chris had already ruled out such prices as unjustified.
.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
20,112
8,219
60
West Sx RH
End of the day it will depend on the current draw one needs for the controller and only by talking to the guy will you know if he can manage it.
Chris's battery did look good and nothing like the face thing picture in the link that was offered up.
 
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Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
20,112
8,219
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West Sx RH
The proof in the pudding is the longevity of the batter y as mentions over the next 18 months - 2 years and good usage. One can't say the battery is very good if it doesn't get used much and as Chris's use at the mo is just for 4 or 5 miles it doesn't really test it to see the full potential or not of it.

You will have to go out Chris on a nice bright day and give us a better view of the battery on a longer jaunt with some nice hills added, 25 miles will be good :eek:.
 
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Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
20,112
8,219
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West Sx RH
Tony 1951 one can't be flippant with remarks regarding batteries as they can cause nasty fires, even lion batteries. It is a duty I believe of us guys to make users aware of potential risks, for the most part most of us don't scare monger but do offer up sound practical help.

When re-celling or repairing a battery it is only as good as the weakest cell , in Chris's case he got we assume cells of all the same type & age !!!

Billy Milburn is a forum member and I believe he is on ebay under a different name offering his battery services in Durham.
 

cyclebuddy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 2, 2016
1,553
736
Beds & Norfolk
It's precisely posts like your that have lost us large numbers of expert advisors over the 15 years of this forum when they get fed up with being unjustifiably maligned and give up.
Yes, we seem to have lost @vfr400 - a very valuable resource. Checking the postings, one can easily see who was responsible.
 

matthewslack

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2021
1,621
1,205
Hi Steve,

I hope you get good service from your re-celled battery. Like you, I got very short shrift here and dire warnings when I first posted about the purchase of a second hand Somerby ebike by my partner so she could come with me on ebike jaunts. It really got up my nose to be lectured by 'experts' in doomsaying when I explained that the second hand barely used bike would not accept a charge because it had been left un charged for a year or more and that the BMS had shut down. I explained that I got past this by carefully monitoring current and voltage as I charged it for ten minutes via the output connectors. You would think I had found a nuclear reactor in a scrap yard and re-purposed it, judging by the hysterical warnings that I got about fire and brimstone, explosion and lethal consequences., along with warnings that no battery having got into a no charge state could ever work properly. What actually happened was that the battery charges perfectly, holds its charge well and the 10.5 Ahr ebike has run for thirty miles and never ever performed below par even at that kind of range. She loves it and it was a total bargain buy (£350). It flies up the steep hills around here too, easily keeping up with my 14 ahr crank motor set up - although it should since she weighs about 8 and a half stone while I weigh a third more.

Anyway - more power to you mate. Too much sour grapes and 'the computer say no' attitude around here from some posters. Obviously - you take a chance with a re-cell like yours. My purchase of an ebike conversion from a one man band outfit is the same (my bike not my partner's). Mine came from a guy in Durham called Billy Milburn. I've had huge enjoyment and some pretty long rides from the battery he made me and about a thousand miles covered so far without any major issues. He instantly replaced an LCD that started showing dead pixels and advised me how to sort out another minor niggle and solved the issue. I got a great bike conversion for £1099. Like yours, we will see how it goes in the long term.
It is very hard to judge tone of language in purely written exchanges, and very easy to end up offending or being offended when it was not meant.

I have lost at least one job during my lifetime by getting that wrong!

Advice given has to err on the side of safety and caution, because initial requests for help rarely make clear the OP's level of knowledge or skill, and we are dealing with potentially lethal consequences.

I hope all stick around, as the pool of expertise will be the richer for it.

Your battery rescue experience is interesting: gives me a nudge to have a go at the 10s shimano pack I have showing 12.5V (!) and perfect balance.
 
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Tony1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 27, 2016
366
245
73
Yes, we seem to have lost @vfr400 - a very valuable resource. Checking the postings, one can easily see who was responsible.
That's comical... The person responsible for the disappearance is the disappeared.

I repeatedly praised his excellent technical advice (which I agree was very useful) but deplored his, in my view dangerous advice on medical matters relating to vaccines and corona virus, which he clearly knew nothing about - he even had the audacity to argue against an intensive care consultant on the forum. I told him what I thought about that, in terms not unlike the way he frequently addressed matters to other people who were pontificating beyond their knowledge.

In my last post to him before he threw his rattle out of the pram, I posted the following remarks:


"Anyone who has followed this thread can see very clearly, your posts and links which claim bad faith on the part of several groups and organisations advocating for vaccination against covid. You clearly imply or state that they are acting in bad faith. Even just a few posts' above you have claimed directly that the UK authorities are hiding harm data, doctors don't bother to record cases of harm, and that sinister forces are putting money into vaccination campaigns.

I'll say again - I have considerable regard and respect for your ebike advice and patient assistance to people who need help here - well done on that. It's good, but here you are trolling in my view. I'd say you are better than that."
 
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GSV3MiaC

Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2020
211
134
+1,.. I bailed from the covid thread some time back, but imo the second most scary thing about the pandemic is the way it revealed some significant percentage of the population just don't understand it, don't want to understand it (even after the Xmas RI lectures), and exhibit levels of zeal usually associated with medieval religions.

Intelligent, well educated people. Scary.
 

LithiumFan

Pedelecer
Jan 6, 2019
34
6
Herefordshire
I bought a new battery made by Billy Milburn a few years ago. He was very helpful, recommended what I should have after going through what I'd asked for. It arrived promptly and has taken me several hundred miles with heavy loads including very long hills in Slovenia, offroad tracks in Scotland and hauling shopping over the Malverns. Its still going strong. Must now go shopping!

I have been very grateful to several forum posters over the years. Do please keep going.
 
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