Best legal conversion kit by far!Expensive

1boris

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 10, 2013
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250w Mac motor,phaserunner controller,cycle analyst and adjusable Torque sensor.Peak power 1500w
 

Nealh

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Aug 7, 2014
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West Sx RH
Err :confused:, the motor specs state 500w rated power for both motors so not legal.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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But that isn't the link you posted and is a different one.
 

guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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What makes these the "Best legal conversion kit by far!"? 12 'fets sounds good. Are these motors rebadged Chinese products, or have they designed their own manufactured in Germany? Is the torque higher than other 250W hub motors? What's been your experience of them? How customisable is the software? Could you use a KT controller with it? How much is it including shipping to the UK?
 
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1boris

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 10, 2013
343
57
What makes these the "Best legal conversion kit by far!"? 12 'fets sounds good. Are these motors rebadged Chinese products, or have they designed their own manufactured in Germany? Is the torque higher than other 250W hub motors? What's been your experience of them? How customisable is the software? Could you use a KT controller with it? How much is it including shipping to the UK?
Its a Mac motor.best geared hub motor on the market,1500w peak power,phasrunner controller,cycle analyst and adjustable torque sensor.Not much more need to be said.also overheat protection.do a search on Mac motor, cycle analyst and phaserunner on endless sphere.Its normally a 1000w rated motor
 
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Nealh

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Aug 7, 2014
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The Puma/Mac motor is like a lot of other hub motors, the manufacturer is simply applying a rating to suit the markets and keep authorities happy. Opening the tech/specs of the system one link clearly states the rating as 500w and the other 250w, all other specs are exact down to the kv/rpm.

Much like the Aikema 128cst, China sellers rate is as 500w but if you have a Wisper bike with one fitted it is 250w rated. The applied mark is whatever the manufacturer decides.
 
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Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
16,586
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West Sx RH
What makes these the "Best legal conversion kit by far!"? 12 'fets sounds good. Are these motors rebadged Chinese products, or have they designed their own manufactured in Germany? Is the torque higher than other 250W hub motors? What's been your experience of them? How customisable is the software? Could you use a KT controller with it? How much is it including shipping to the UK?

WIth the CA and control system you have a better set up then the KT, though at far greater cost.
 
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izy

Pedelecer
Nov 28, 2020
28
3
hmmm so my rated 1500w DD hub is best legal conversion kit according to you then
since it can be configured to do 250 constant and high peaks like this

plus even with import costs direct from grins website its cheaper than what this website sells the CA/PR for that and i get my warranty directly from grin

also peak power is literally a vague point because it really depends on controller and battery capabilities

like sure I have a phaserunner and my 52v battery can do 60A and peak over 3000W
but really thats skimming legality even though theres no real law on peak
 

1boris

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 10, 2013
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hmmm so my rated 1500w DD hub is best legal conversion kit according to you then
since it can be configured to do 250 constant and high peaks like this

plus even with import costs direct from grins website its cheaper than what this website sells the CA/PR for that and i get my warranty directly from grin

also peak power is literally a vague point because it really depends on controller and battery capabilities

like sure I have a phaserunner and my 52v battery can do 60A and peak over 3000W
but really thats skimming legality even though theres no real law on peak
you have completely misunderstood everything,NO your motor is not legal whatever you do with it.
 

izy

Pedelecer
Nov 28, 2020
28
3
you have completely misunderstood everything,NO your motor is not legal whatever you do with it.
Nah I understand perfectly fine how legal it is depending on what I do with it.

The literal legality law states that a motor can only do 250w continuous and 15.5mph

There no limit how much peak power is allowed
Bosch mid drives literally break 800w in performance mode.

It's the same reason the overpriced kit you linked using the same controller and lcd as myself and a geared hub that peaks "1500w" can be said to be legal.


Nothing stopping me from bursting over 2000w as long as it stops assisting past 15.5mph and drops down to 250w

It's literally the same logic as your 1500w mac motor all they are doing is limiting it to 250w or just speed limiting it as the cycle analyst doesn't support lower limiting and peak power at same timr
 
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guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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Nah I understand perfectly fine how legal it is depending on what I do with it.

The literal legality law states that a motor can only do 250w continuous and 15.5mph

There no limit how much peak power is allowed
Bosch mid drives literally break 800w in performance mode.

It's the same reason the overpriced kit you linked using the same controller and lcd as myself and a geared hub that peaks "1500w" can be said to be legal.


Nothing stopping me from bursting over 2000w as long as it stops assisting past 15.5mph and drops down to 250w

It's literally the same logic as your 1500w mac motor all they are doing is limiting it to 250w or just speed limiting it as the cycle analyst doesn't support lower limiting and peak power at same timr

Any motor "Rated" by the manufacturer at 1500W isn't legal on UK roads, unless it's registered as a motorbike. You really need to read this whole thread:

 

izy

Pedelecer
Nov 28, 2020
28
3
Any motor "Rated" by the manufacturer at 1500W isn't legal on UK roads, unless it's registered as a motorbike. You really need to read this whole thread:

You need to read the whole thread


"(h) pedal cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of less than or equal to 250 W, where the output of the motor is cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally cut off before the vehicle speed reaches 25 km/h "

This is the key point pedelecs are only allowed a maximum continuous rating of 250w or less.

It doesn't have a burst limitation which is why bosch motors in prebuilt bikes can peak upwards of 800watts

Also just because a motor is rated for 1500w that ultimately is handled by the controller / display
Motors literally will run at whatever you pump into them.
My hub can easily maintain 15.5mph under 200watts.

Also by reverse logic it's like saying a 250w motor running 2000w through a phaserunner is legal
Because the motor is rated 250w

I even know a guy about to get his 250wlpm on his ebike with the same 1500w hub motor limited
 

guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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hmmm so my rated 1500w DD hub is best legal conversion kit according to you then
since it can be configured to do 250 constant and high peaks like this
If your motor is rated by the manufacturer at 1500W, it's illegal - what's the rating embossed or printed by the manufacturer on your motor?
 

izy

Pedelecer
Nov 28, 2020
28
3
None because its a conversion kit they not embossed with power ratings besides the rating on motors conforms to what the controller supplies.

Which is exactly why the 1500w mac motor is being marked as legal as well as conversion kits because they usually come with a 250w limiter.

A power rating is literally what the motor can handle without heat being the leading factor in degradation.

Like I said before the motor power doesn't matter as long as it conforms to legal continuous and also speed limits.

Even manufacturers like bosh don't even conform to a flat power rating


Also you reiterating the fact the motor needs to be marked for rated power (which it doesnt) to be classified as legal is moot and doesn't counter my original point that by that logic running 2000w into a 250w motor is legal because its marked 250w.

All it needs to do to be legal is to run at 250w continuous with a 15.5mph limit.
Which funny enough with a phaserunner and cycle analyst will actually maintain that better than prebuilts as they tend to peak at 300-400w continuous, while if you set limits with the grins hardware it will full limit the amperage/wattage to not exceed that
 
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guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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None because its a conversion kit they not embossed with power ratings besides the rating on motors conforms to what the controller supplies.

Which is exactly why the 1500w mac motor is being marked as legal as well as conversion kits because they usually come with a 250w limiter.


Like I said before the motor power doesn't matter as long as it conforms to legal continuous and also speed limits.

Even manufacturers like bosh don't even conform to a flat power rating

My (kit) mid drive is embossed with 250W, so if the fuzz ever give my bike a visual check, they'll see that embossed rating, and will be able to check my max speed via the display, which is set to 15mph - you might have a longer conversation with the plod. But it's very rare to be stopped, as far as I know. Hey it's only 6 points.
 

izy

Pedelecer
Nov 28, 2020
28
3
My (kit) mid drive is embossed with 250W, so if the fuzz ever give my bike a visual check, they'll see that embossed rating, and will be able to check my max speed via the display, which is set to 15mph - you might have a longer conversation with the plod. But it's very rare to be stopped, as far as I know. Hey it's only 6 points.
Sure let me just buy a "250w continuous power" sticker and show them my display limiting my speed to 15.5mph (not including the slight overhead you are allowed before motor realises it needs to cutoff)

Because the cycle analyst is very versatile and has an array of settings to dial in and I can just show its draw.

Either way yeah it's very rare to get pulled its only those if ride stupidly and tend be reported that get pulled usually
 

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
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Sure let me just buy a "250w continuous power" sticker and show them my display limiting my speed to 15.5mph (not including the slight overhead you are allowed before motor realises it needs to cutoff)

Because the cycle analyst is very versatile and has an array of settings to dial in and I can just show its draw.

Either way yeah it's very rare to get pulled its only those if ride stupidly and tend be reported that get pulled usually
The plod disregard stickers - if you ever do get stopped, upload a video of your interaction with them here, that's what I'll be doing.
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
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any bike that you can change any settings is not road legal and why i have to buy a dongle at rip of prices.

a uk motor must be 250w and cut off at 15mph but can use more than 250w if under the speed limit and say climbing a hill when it will use way more than 250w and with my bosch bike has a 20Acontroller and have 7-800w to push my ass up a hill.

at the end of the day plod dont give a **** as most want one them self and no shite 15mph speed limit just dont kill anyone going 120mph down a canal path ;)