Bosch Powerpack 400 losing capacity

[NewtSoup]

Hi, I've had my ebike about 3 months. I used it 4 times a week and usually run the batttery down to around 5-15 miles range remaining.

When charged usually says 36-40 miles. However the last few days the battery has been on charge overnight as I often do, It's charged to maximum bars but the range is only 29 miles. And it's only doing 29 miles where previously I could get over 40 with my riding style.

Any clue what's going on?

 

[Gubbins]

Hi, I've had my ebike about 3 months. I used it 4 times a week and usually run the batttery down to around 5-15 miles range remaining.

When charged usually says 36-40 miles. However the last few days the battery has been on charge overnight as I often do, It's charged to maximum bars but the range is only 29 miles. And it's only doing 29 miles where previously I could get over 40 with my riding style.

Any clue what's going on?

Cold weather...

 

[NewtSoup]

Even though the bike is charged at room temperature? Does the system estimate range based on pprevious discharge rates then?

I was expecting it to say the usual 36-40 range but just use it quicker in the cold. Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy if the battery is actually fine

 

[Andy-Mat]

Hi, I've had my ebike about 3 months. I used it 4 times a week and usually run the batttery down to around 5-15 miles range remaining.

When charged usually says 36-40 miles. However the last few days the battery has been on charge overnight as I often do, It's charged to maximum bars but the range is only 29 miles. And it's only doing 29 miles where previously I could get over 40 with my riding style.

Any clue what's going on?

 

[Andy-Mat]

Check the voltage with a Voltmeter, my batter is 36 volts nominal, at the end of a charge it is always 42 volts, just as it should be, for example. If is not at full charge, you will get reduced range. You did not mention what voltage you have....
Plus, do not forget that your "style" of riding makes a huge difference. A higher PAS number will use more power, as might a different route, too much throttle even, or tyres not fully pumped up (that happened to me about 5 years ago! They took about 30% of my maximum range off!). Tyres must be at maximum allowed pressure. Different tyres will also use more power possibly. The list is endless. Best of luck.

 

[soundwave]

Even though the bike is charged at room temperature? Does the system estimate range based on pprevious discharge rates then?

I was expecting it to say the usual 36-40 range but just use it quicker in the cold. Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy if the battery is actually fine

it try to guess whats left depending on what mode you last used so if turbo then mileage will be a lot lower than if it was in eco mode.

 

[Danidl]

Hi. With winter coming in the two things are reduced temperature, which means the rider wearing a heavier coat or parka,and increased wind speeds. Both of these play havoc with milage . The power requirement due to wind increases as the cube of the relative speed of the bike against the wind. As an example say you were travelling at 10 km per HR ..a very slow speed and in still air ,well when you get to 20 km hr you are expending 8 times more!!. Let's take the example of a 10 km breeze, if going with the wind, at 10 no energy lost,and the wind sails you along. ,Against the wind it's 8 times more,and say you were going at a sedate 20km HR. Then compared to travelling at 10 in HR in still air, the power required is 81 times more!!!!.

 

[NewtSoup]

The main thing causing my concern was that after a charge at room temperature overnight it was only saying 29 miles today before it got anywhere near cold. I coaxed 36 out of it by turning the system down to "tour" at 11 miles remaining ( I usually ride it in turbo and get 4.5 hours of deliveries out of it or even 5 ) When I finished my shift after 5.25 hours I turned it back up to turbo to help me carry my shopping home and it had 6 miles remaining on tap in turbo mode.

I'm hoping that the system uses the discharge "history" to predict how many miles you get on a full charge. I will measure the charged voltage tomorrow. if it hits the 42V of a fully charged 10S bank then I'll be content that it's just a matter of riding style and temperature and a clever prediction system.

I think though, now that this bike has paid for itself, I am going to slap a spare battery on a credit card. I'm not lazy, I worked hard today but I'm 47 and making my very physical job easier is everything to me.

BTW I'm one of the "nice" Deliveroo riders I use lights, wear a helmet, use hand signals, use my bell appropriately, thank drivers and don't ride down pavements or too fast past pedestrians in shared areas.

 

[NewtSoup]

Oh and thanks for the replies guys it's nice to have intelligent support.

Regarding headwinds and wind in general - I had been wondering how much a fairing might help to flow air around me and my backpack. Obviuosly it's something that would have to be made as nobody makes fairings for bicycles but I am aware that a lot of the energy "lost" in cycling is simply overcoming air resistance and reclaimed energy must equal more miles.

 

[Danidl]

There is a thread relating to recumbent bike and farings on those. ,My opinion is that they would be just dangerous on a high bike. The wind is not always cooperative and a side wind gust would whip someone sideways.. . No there is nothing for it but to cycle in the nude, it is the parkas which increase the windage.
The stance of a cyclist on a standard high bike ,is probably the worst possible from a windage viewpoint. Their body forms a U shape and traps air .

 

[Andy-Mat]

There is a thread relating to recumbent bike and farings on those. ,My opinion is that they would be just dangerous on a high bike. The wind is not always cooperative and a side wind gust would whip someone sideways.. . No there is nothing for it but to cycle in the nude, it is the parkas which increase the windage.
The stance of a cyclist on a standard high bike ,is probably the worst possible from a windage viewpoint. Their body forms a U shape and traps air .

Cycling in the nude, especially on a very cold day, would quickly reduce wind resistance in some areas of the male human body........
Its worth trying therefore I feel, if your battery life reduces much more!!
regards to all
Andy

 

[zakventis]

The main thing causing my concern was that after a charge at room temperature overnight it was only saying 29 miles today before it got anywhere near cold. I coaxed 36 out of it by turning the system down to "tour" at 11 miles remaining ( I usually ride it in turbo and get 4.5 hours of deliveries out of it or even 5 ) When I finished my shift after 5.25 hours I turned it back up to turbo to help me carry my shopping home and it had 6 miles remaining on tap in turbo mode.

Just checking... after a ride/charging, when displaying the range, do you press and hold down the Reset button for 5 seconds to show the standardized range?

 

[sjpt]

I'm hoping that the system uses the discharge "history" to predict how many miles you get on a full charge. It certainly does. and it seems to stress very recent history (just a 3 or 4 miles at most). If I leave home on a full battery (near the bottom of not particularly high hills, 100m climb) I often get an estimate of somewhat over 30. That reduces after 2 mile ride to the top to only just over 20; increases to maybe 25 after a few miles fairly flat, and is still at over 20 after a few more miles and back down the hill to home. So the estimate at the start is very close to the distance travelled plus the estimate at the end, but the short term estimate penalty for going up a hill seems a bit extreme. Usually riding on Tour pretty much the whole time. Doesn't matter too much once you realize, but I think more damped estimates would be more useful to me.

I didn't know about that standardized range reset, I must try that. I'm not sure how it works out the initial estimate after a charge otherwise.

 

[NewtSoup]

Just checking... after a ride/charging, when displaying the range, do you press and hold down the Reset button for 5 seconds to show the standardized range?

I shall have a mess around on that - on mine there is no reset button. You have to hold down the +/- buttons together for 5 seconds to reset the trip. This doesn't affect the displayed range.

I need to find my meter and measure the voltage too.

I have measured the voltage. There are two connections marked + and - so I put my meter across those on the 200v range. It measures a big fat 0V fully charged. This means that the battery produces no output across those pins without it being installed in the bike.

However, today it thinks it h as 34 miles in it which is more where I'm used to so I'm not going to worry any more.

My local dealer have said they will also see what they can do about giving me dealer inside information on the system along with diagnostic software

 

[Gubbins]

My yamaha shows as a battery percentage rather than estimated miles and shows a constant decline rather than an estimated distance that goes up and down. Did I read that the newer Bosch systems also do that?

 

[NewtSoup]

Mine is a newer bosch I believe. The bike only came out a year ago. It's using the low end Purion controller.

It shows battery level in bars and has estimated range remaining ( in whole miles ) trip ( in whole miles ) and total distance in.. you guessed it - whole miles. I'd rather know to the nearest 10th what my trip is but there we go.

Interestingly enough the blurb says that the purion system can take a dual battery. I will look into the dual battery upgrade ( or just buy a second and carry it with me ).

 

[Gubbins]

I have been looking at the 2019 Bosch vids and i am sure it shows a battery percentage on an intuvia display.

 

[NewtSoup]

That will be in then. My display is Purion.

 

[soundwave]

only the latest motors support dual batts as the motor stores the settings it has nothing to do with the displays used.

you might also need to get a dealer to turn the dual batt feature on like the light settings so id check out that first b4 you buy the cables ect as it could be only turned on at the factory so then its oem bikes only as dealers wont be able to turn it on.

 

[soundwave]

https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?threads/dual-battery-für-bosch.42892/

has to be a 2017 motor and have the latest updates and it should work