Help! Brainpower controller and S886 display problems

[Sivs]

Hi, looks like a nice forum!.
My Panda ebike conversion to my wife's bike has failed, and being unable to get any response from Panda ebikes I've finally tried to fix it myself.

The issue I had was that although the battery was fully charged and had 37V the LCD display on the handlebar shows empty battery and the motor would not power when pedalled or using walk mode.

I have fitted the Brainpower controller (model S866-C) and the LCD display S886 (thinking good to fit a pair), the good news is this now shows full battery on the S866 display and when I use the walk mode the front wheel drives correctly at about 4 mph (after using the intelligent wire to reverse direction).

My original kit was wired with no motor hall connections, just the three phase wires, so I have left it like this.

The problem is I am getting no motor drive when using the pedals (PAS), and I also have an error "E7 - Motor Failure" but the motor can run as in walk mode
Checks I have made are:

PAS - when pedalled forward I am getting output voltage switching between 0V and 4.6V 12 times per crank rev so this looks OK (constant 0V when back pedalling) - I measured on the blue wire of the 1:1 accelerator connector as attached image. - I believe this is the correct connection for the PAS - I have set P13 to 12 pulses per rev for the PAS output.

Throttle - I have no throttle but tried connecting the red wire to the white wire in the "Speed throttle" connection while control is in throttle mode, but again the motor will not run

Voltage is set to 36V as per my battery

I have checked the P10 setting to ensure PAS is displayed on the LCD, but tried it on throttle as well.

Hall sensors - my wheel (which is marked as a Swytch wheel) has hall sensor wires so I tried connecting them, but again no motor control

Brake wire - tried shorting this just in case a short was needed for no brakes, but display then shows brake symbol - and again no power to the wheel

It seems odd the motor will run in walk mode only - any ideas anyone? maybe the controller is no good?

See attached image
Many thanks

 

[Sivs]

Hi, looks like a nice forum!.
My Panda ebike conversion to my wife's bike has failed, and being unable to get any response from Panda ebikes I've finally tried to fix it myself.

The issue I had was that although the battery was fully charged and had 37V the LCD display on the handlebar shows empty battery and the motor would not power when pedalled or using walk mode.

I have fitted the Brainpower controller (model S866-C) and the LCD display S886 (thinking good to fit a pair), the good news is this now shows full battery on the S866 display and when I use the walk mode the front wheel drives correctly at about 4 mph (after using the intelligent wire to reverse direction).

My original kit was wired with no motor hall connections, just the three phase wires, so I have left it like this.

The problem is I am getting no motor drive when using the pedals (PAS), and I also have an error "E7 - Motor Failure" but the motor can run as in walk mode
Checks I have made are:

PAS - when pedalled forward I am getting output voltage switching between 0V and 4.6V 12 times per crank rev so this looks OK (constant 0V when back pedalling) - I measured on the blue wire of the 1:1 accelerator connector as attached image. - I believe this is the correct connection for the PAS - I have set P13 to 12 pulses per rev for the PAS output.

Throttle - I have no throttle but tried connecting the red wire to the white wire in the "Speed throttle" connection while control is in throttle mode, but again the motor will not run

Voltage is set to 36V as per my battery

I have checked the P10 setting to ensure PAS is displayed on the LCD, but tried it on throttle as well.

Hall sensors - my wheel (which is marked as a Swytch wheel) has hall sensor wires so I tried connecting them, but again no motor control

Brake wire - tried shorting this just in case a short was needed for no brakes, but display then shows brake symbol - and again no power to the wheel

It seems odd the motor will run in walk mode only - any ideas anyone? maybe the controller is no good?

See attached image
Many thanks

 

[vfr400]

It sounds like you've done the self-learning incorrectly.
Connect the motor hall wires and connect the self-learning wires. Switch on. Wait for the wheel to start turning in the correct direction. Switch off, disconnect the self-learning wires and don't connect them again.

If that doesn't work, post up all your parameter settings.

 

[Sivs]

Hi VFR400 thanks for your reply.
BTW I always fancied the VFR400 (the one sometimes referred to as RC45? with the twin headlights) great bikes!

OK I have tried your suggestion.
I connected all 5 motor hall wires and connected self learn wires. When I switch on there are about 5 audible clicks from the wheel, I waited a couple of minutes but the motor never runs just the one set of clicks as soon as I power up.
So I switched off, and disconnected learning wires. Then when I power up motor direction is reversed, but I can still only run the motor with the walk mode, PAS does not work.
If I repeat the process, each time I assume it reverses the motor direction as it alternately runs forward or makes a noise of motor running but wheel not turning. To me it seems like self learning just sets up the direction?
I tried measuring the hall output voltages with the module on and all three give a steady +5V, I get the same result running in walk mode - so this seems wrong surly halls should be pulsing?
As I said I have error message E07 "Motor failure"
I must also point out that this ebike did not originally have the hallwiring connected, so when I try without hall connected I get exactly the same result (runs in walk mode, but not with PAS when cranking), and I can still make it learn alternative rotation directions.

The speed indication in walk mode is 25mph!! on the display, but calculating from wheel revs it appears to be about 4.5mph which seem about right.
I was able to get this to read correct but only by using absurd settings for P06, P07 and P18

Please see the setting I am using:
P01 backlight level = 2
P02 Units = 1 (miles)
P03 voltage 36V (as battery)
P04 Sleep time = 10 mins
P05 Power assist mode= 2 (9 power levels)
P06 wheel diameter 27.5 inch
P07 No. of speed magnets = 45 (I have no idea what my wheel has it was bought from Panda ebikes but is branded SWYTCH - it is a front wheel
P08 speed limit 25 kph
P09 = 0 (zero start) - don't know what this is!
P10 Drive mode = 0 (this gives PAS on the display)
P11 Boost sensitivity = 1 - don't know what this is!
P12 Boost start strength =3
P13 Power magnetic steel type setting =12 (for 12 PAS pulses per rev I assumed)
P14 Current limit = 9 amps
P15 Controller undervoltage level = 29 V
P16 ODO clear option
P17 = 0 Cruise not enabled
P18 Display speed ratio = 100
P19 0 gear - Don't know what this is!
P20 Protocol - 0

Let me know if you have an suggestions
Thanks very much
Sivs

 

[vfr400]

P01 backlight level = 2 Correct
P02 Units = 1 (miles) Correct
P03 voltage 36V (as battery) Correct
P04 Sleep time = 10 mins Correct
P05 Power assist mode= 2 (9 power levels) 1 for 5 levels might be better
P06 wheel diameter 27.5 inch Correct, presumably
P07 No. of speed magnets = 45 (I have no idea what my wheel has it was bought from Panda ebikes but is branded SWYTCH - it is a front wheel. P07 is the number of magnets in the speed sensor. It affects the calculation of speed displayed. Most hub-motors have 1 magnet if they have an internal speed sensor. Some have 6. You'll know that when you set to 1 and the speed shown is 6 times what it should be. External wheel spoke sensors have 1 magnet. If you don't have any speed sensor, the controller will pick up a signal from a hall sensor, in which case the value will be around 12.
P08 speed limit 25 kph Correct
P09 = 0 (zero start) - don't know what this is! Zero start means independent throttle.
P10 Drive mode = 0 (this gives PAS on the display) Throttle is disabled and PAS is enabled. Set 2 if you have both throttle and PAS or want to test the throttle connector
P11 Boost sensitivity = 1 - don't know what this is! It's the steepness of the power ramp when you start
P12 Boost start strength =3 Presumably the step before the power ramp starts. There are 5 step values, as soon as the controller detects pedalling, it gives 3/5 of the power, which ramps up to 5/5 of the power in a set time. The time is dependent on the P11 setting.
P13 Power magnetic steel type setting =12 (for 12 PAS pulses per rev I assumed) Correct
P14 Current limit = 9 amps Too low, should be around 15 amps.
P15 Controller undervoltage level = 29 V Too low. Increase it to 31v to get a longer lifetime from your battery
P16 ODO clear option Obvious
P17 = 0 Cruise not enabled correct
P18 Display speed ratio = 100 This is fine adjustment to the speed displayed to take account of tyre sizes. Check your displayed speed with GPS, then make fine adjustment here (percentage)
P19 0 gear - Don't know what this is! Gear normally means throttle. I can't see why they need an additional disable setting. 0 is off, 1 is on. Set it on for testing the throttle connector
P20 Protocol - 0 Communication protocol between controller and LCD. 0 should be correct.

I don't see anything there that would disable your PAS, which implies that your problem is elsewhere.

If you don't have a throttle, you can test by shorting red to white on the throttle connector, which gives a full throttle signal. You have to make the bridge after you turn on for it to work.

One other potential cause is that a lot of controllers don't like 12 magnet PASs. If you have a magnet disc type you can press out every other magnet to convert to a 6 magnet one for testing. If you put the magnets back, you have to put them the right way up.

You can also test the PAS function with the PAS disconnected. Make a short staple-shaped piece of wire and rapidly tap the two ends on the red and signal wire at the same time on the controller's PAS connector. if that doesn't work, try the black and signal wires.

 

[Sivs]

Hi VFR400
Thanks again for your reply
I've made the changes to the settings as you suggested, but still with no success (wheel mptor not running with PAS, only when using walk mode)
I have also tried:
a) setting to throttle and shorting red to white on the throttle connection but still no wheel rotation, the red is at +5V and the white comes up to 5V when I connect it, so I'm making the connection OK

b) I've also tried the tapping the red and signal wires for the PAS together as you suggested, sometimes I just get audible clicks from the motor without rotation, but sometimes the motor runs, I managed to keep it going for a while but the motor only runs at a very very slow constant speed (16 seconds for one wheel rev), I tried at different assist levels and boost start strength but got the same result - remember I still have an E07 shown indicating motor failure - so perhaps this is what the problem is? - but I find this hard to understand as the motor runs OK at the right speed in walk mode?
c) I've also managed to record the voltage when cranking at the PAS sensor - I can get much the same square wave whether I crank the pedals or tap the wires together - see attached picture which shows a good square wave from 0V to 4.36V - however I can only get the motor to run when tapping the wires together - so not sure what the difference is?

I'm thinking of returning the controller and LCD and getting a different one - any recommendations?

 

[vfr400]

If the motor turns with a rasping noise, there's probably a hall problem. If it turns with normal noise when you use the walk assist or anything else, then there's probably nothing wrong with the motor.

Try the self-learning again exactly like I described above. Maybe the motor wasn't connected properly last time. Make sure that every connection to the motor is sound.

 

[aaronsace]

I also can't get my PAS to work with it so I've ordered a new PAS to try; hopefully it works...

Also, note, I found that you have to unplug the self-learning wire before switching it off otherwise it wouldn't save the motor direction.

This is my motor spec:
Speed Detection Signal (Pulses/Cycle) - 6
Reduction Ratio - 1:11
Magnet Poles (2P) - 16

How do you work out that P07?

 

[aaronsace]

my wheel (which is marked as a Swytch wheel)

FYI: https://www.swytchbike.com/

 

[aaronsace]

New PAS worked! It's a 12 Magnet one.

No idea why the other one isn't compatible... Tried every combination of the 3 wires... Maybe it died with the old controller...

 

[aaronsace]

Do I do 6x11=66?

 

[Nealh]

If it is for motor/gear ratio 16 x 11.

 

[Sivs]

I also can't get my PAS to work with it so I've ordered a new PAS to try; hopefully it works...

Also, note, I found that you have to unplug the self-learning wire before switching it off otherwise it wouldn't save the motor direction.

This is my motor spec:
Speed Detection Signal (Pulses/Cycle) - 6
Reduction Ratio - 1:11
Magnet Poles (2P) - 16

How do you work out that P07?

Yes I had the same thing - need to disconnect the self learn before switching off to make it change motor direction

 

[aaronsace]

If it is for motor/gear ratio 16 x 11.

I initially thought that but the max is setting on the controller is 100. Maybe 16 poles means 8 magnets...? Also, what about that 6 pulses... What is that?

 

[Nealh]

6 pulses usually means a 6 poles for the PAS or 6 poles for the speed sensor.

 

[aaronsace]

6 pulses usually means a 6 poles for the PAS or 6 poles for the speed sensor.

Seeing as I can't enter 176 (16x11) anyway, I'll try 66 then (6x11). Thanks.

 

[aaronsace]

It's Friday! Got chance to test it out. Works really well and it's no longer capped at 25kpm... get a nice 30+ now.

So, the speedometer... I downloaded an app on my phone to check and I believe 176 (16x11) is most likely correct but, seeing as you can't set it over 100, this is what I did:
Set P07 to 88 (8x11)
Set P18 to 50%

P18 basically just displays the speed 50% less which makes it display the correct speed.

Why the limit is 100 not 999 is anyone's guess...

 

[Sivs]

In response to VFR400 note of July 19th
My motor runs smoothly in walk mode - no rasping noise, I've double checked all the connections to ensure they are good.
I can make it learn forward or backward rotation with the learning wires, but that's all I get, I never get a poor rotation.
regardless of if I have the hall sensors connected or not I get the same result - only runs in walk mode. (original set up did not use the hall connections and ran very well

As my earlier image I'm getting a good 12 pulses per rev from the PAS but neither the PAS or using a staple to pulse a signal without the PAS makes the motor run.

Also shorting the throttle does not make the motor run (but I am getting the 5V on the signal wire)

So I believe the motor is OK and I have a controller fault perhaps
I've now sent the controller back to Amazon as the 1 month return period was up.

Can anyone suggest a controller and LCD display kit I can try next to suit this 36V battery and 250W swytch motor? Ideally one that does not need hall connection as it originally did not use these connections

Thanks,
Barry

 

[Nealh]

Get a KT square wave controller and LCD3, Aliexpress, TBK, GBK, PSWPower or BMS battery and others, go China direct as that is where they all come.

 

[aaronsace]

I just bought a new pedal sensor on Amazon Prime. Worked perfect then.

Bike Pedal Assist Sensor, Electric Bicycle Accessory Electric Bicycle Pedal 12 Magnets Assistant Sensor Speed Sensor : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

Shop Bike Pedal Assist Sensor, Electric Bicycle Accessory Electric Bicycle Pedal 12 Magnets Assistant Sensor Speed Sensor. Free delivery and returns on all eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk