Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Yes but:


It's madness shoving hydrogen through existing leaky gas pipes! Or using it at any great scale to fuel anything at all - there will be trillions of tiny litle leaks, little pffts, leading to all life on Earth's surface developing skin cancers (humans, animals) and dying off ...
We've long been using some hydrogen fuel cell buses in London and currently have many more on order. They will be running all our longer routes with Battery Electric ones serving the short to medium length routes. We've totally stopped all purchase of ICE buses.

The hydrogen used is a by product of chemical manufaturing elsewhere and no pipelines are involved, all transport and use is with compression in cylinders.
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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I am looking at required investment at the national levels. Would we need HS2/HS3/HS4? more motorways? or put money into electric planes?
No, we'll need far less transport. The transport habit is modern humanity's biggest failure to date. It will drastically change and that change has already started.
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guerney

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We've long been using some hydrogen fuel cell buses in London and currently have many more on order. They will be running all our longer routes with Battery Electric ones serving the short to medium length routes. We've totally stopped all purchase of ICE buses.

The hydrogen used is a by product of chemical manufaturing elsewhere and no pipelines are involved, all transport and use is with compression in cylinders.
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But that's small beans compared to widespread use for all domestic heating and general transport purposes. We can't manage CO2 levels through global co-operation, keeping excess hydrogen out of the atmosphere can't happen either.
 
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guerney

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No, we'll need far less transport. The transport habit is modern humanity's biggest failure to date. It will drastically change and that change has already started.
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I disgree that the change will be permanent - it's pandemic related and that will only last about 20 years. Working from home isn't productive, I'm a prime example... which reminds me, I must switch off this computer. Seeya later!
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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But that's small beans compared to widespread use for all domestic heating and general transport purposes. We can't manage CO2 levels through global co-operation, keeping excess hydrogen out of the atmosphere can't happen either.
I live in London so it's fine for us. Others can sort out their own problem!

I agree on the home use and other transport, impractical and unnecessary.
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flecc

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I disgree that the change will be permanent - it's pandemic related and that will only last about 20 years. Working from home isn't productive, I'm a prime example... which reminds me, I must switch off this computer. Seeya later!
You're misreading my post, I wasn't only referring to the temporary pandemic effects and work isn't only done in offices anyway.
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Yep, his energy density factor is a bit out but I do wonder if its a case of enjoying the journey to a Lee shore by ignoring it.
I think our Government are jumping on band wagon to distract from other failing areas.
Conversion to heat pumps is going to be far more problematic than made out.. And I, m a big fan of them. (daughter has air sourced) and it's very good... But not without problems... ie) expense, both initial cost and servicing/repairs... She often has to supplement it with electric heating which tends to offset the overall savings and will yet again produce more demand on e generation.?
I fully agree on the government position with heating and also don't see heat pumps as being quite at as easy here as the authorities seem to believe. We can't even get simple cladding off our housing blocks, let alone something far more complex.
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jonathan.agnew

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You're misreading my post, I wasn't only referring to the temporary pandemic effects and work isn't only done in offices anyway.
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But I like a hybrid model, flexible work. Makes more sense than 90 minutes a day in traffic (peak am and pm) and feels more creative
 
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Danidl

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Yes but:


It's madness shoving hydrogen through existing leaky gas pipes! Or using it at any great scale to fuel anything at all - there will be trillions of tiny litle leaks, little pffts, leading to all life on Earth's surface developing skin cancers (humans, animals) and dying off ...
Note my selectivity. I am suggesting Aviation for a few reasons . The power to weight ratio of any battery technology is poorer. The journey times are known with reasonable precision and cyrogenic storage in low pressure low weight vessels feasible ... Even if they have to be remanufactured after each trip.
I would be very wary about introducing gaseous hydrogen into the standard gas network for similar reasons to those you suggest. I can recall the explosions which resulted when natural gas was used to replace town gas in the 1970 s .. The natural gas was dryer and this allowed the wadding between pipe segments to dessicate and leak.
 

Danidl

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Yes but if we take too much power from the tides for too long, won't that bring the Moon closer to Earth? The sky will fall on our heads! :eek:
Well look at the bright side of life. .. If the moon were closer, the tidal effects would be more pronounced, so the efficiency will improve. The the moonlight will be even brighter. However that effect of reducing distance will not happen .. If anything all that will happen is a reduction in sand dune formation.
 
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jonathan.agnew

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No, we'll need far less transport. The transport habit is modern humanity's biggest failure to date. It will drastically change and that change has already started.
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I wonder, in principle perhaps, in practice not so sure. Wife has to do 130 mile round trip 5 days a week (some adult education dont work digitally), after serious thumbsucking (and reluctantly grinding the rivets of the wallet), I've concluded an mg5 is the cheapest solution over the next 5 years. And very likely most environmental.
 
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flecc

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I wonder, in principle perhaps, in practice not so sure. Wife has to do 130 mile round trip 5 days a week (some adult education dont work digitally),
There will always be some exceptions of course, but they don't matter so no need to feel any guilt. What matters is that the average annual mileage of all motorists in this country is 7,300 miles, just 20 miles a day, so moderate yet still reducible.

after serious thumbsucking (and reluctantly grinding the rivets of the wallet), I've concluded an mg5 is the cheapest solution over the next 5 years. And very likely most environmental.
Sensible choice, and based on the Chinese Roewe Ei5 should be well tried and reliable.
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jonathan.agnew

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There will always be some exceptions of course, but they don't matter so no need to feel any guilt. What matters is that the average annual mileage of all motorists in this country is 7,300 miles, just 20 miles a day, so moderate yet still reducible.



Sensible choice, and based on the Chinese Roewe Ei5 should be well tried and reliable.
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This may be neurotic, but the only slight niggle I noticed is that its battery is warranted for 7 years/80k miles as opposed to 8 year/100k industry standard (not that it really matter, but it reminded me of a ford I had years ago with a six year perforation warranty that broke into patterns of iron oxide flowers punctually after its sixth birthday)
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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This may be neurotic, but the only slight niggle I noticed is that its battery is warranted for 7 years/80k miles as opposed to 8 year/100k industry standard (not that it really matter, but it reminded me of a ford I had years ago with a six year perforation warranty that broke into patterns of iron oxide flowers punctually after its sixth birthday)
I doubt you need worry, all these e-car batteries heve been greatly exceeding both warranty periods and expectations. The waranty periods were just guesswork anyway since none had been around lomg enough to actually know. Nissan first guessed 5 years for bought batteries, their partner Renault guessed 4 years if they were rented. When they exceeded that both companies changed to saying 8 years, thus setting the standard, but many of them have been lasting beyond 10 years.

Key thing though is to avoid the rapid and ultra rapid chargers for the longest life. If your wife only uses the fast home charger it will last longest, it has sufficient range for her round trip anyway with a third of the charge to spare.
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Woosh

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Which will not happen for another 100 years, if ever.
the test flight of an 8-person Cessna earlier this year was a success:

QUOTE:
It’s a far cry from the 200-300-seater jet that takes you on weekend city breaks or work trips, never mind the huge double-decker planes that cross continents. But the “eCaravan” test flight was a success. The two companies behind it, AeroTEC and magniX, which supplied the electric motor, are chuffed with the results. Roei Ganzarski, chief executive of magniX, pointed out in a statement that the price of flying the Cessna clocked in at a mere $6 (£4.80). Had they used conventional engine fuel, the 30-minute flight would have cost $300-400 (£240-320).

 

jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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I doubt you need worry, all these e-car batteries heve been greatly exceeding both warranty periods and expectations. The waranty periods were just guesswork anyway since none had been around lomg enough to actually know. Nissan first guessed 5 years for bought batteries, their partner Renault guessed 4 years if they were rented. When they exceeded that both companies changed to saying 8 years, thus setting the standard, but many of them have been lasting beyond 10 years.

Key thing though is to avoid the rapid and ultra rapid chargers for the longest life. If your wife only uses the fast home charger it will last longest, it has sufficient range for her round trip anyway with a third of the charge to spare.
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Yes, I guess 22kw should be ok (for being approximately 0.4C on a 60 kWh battery)?
 
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