Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

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I didn't do that. And it is like the widely held view that, for example, police need to avoid criminality and, if they do get sentenced for something, that sentence should take into account their position.
They aren't being sentenced, they aren't law enforcers like the police and the police clearly aren't interested in that possibility of a covid regulations breach.

It's old history and there's a strong smell of witch hunting about this non-event staff party, going to any lengths to get them for anything. There's plenty of policy issues that Starmer and the media could more usefully concentrate on.
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jonathan.agnew

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Well that's exactly what Starmer should be saying. But he doesn't, he reports Boris to Police and moans about a year old covid rule breach...
And its, Starmer /Labour not attacking Tories on important issues we were discussing. My point was, is, why on earth bring up stupid things like parties with all things you mention along with all things I did not dealt with.
Phoning police, especially when covid breaches are not even investigated retrospectively let alone prosecuted, is utterly pointless. An utter waste of time.
It's what you would, increasingly desperately, want us to discuss. And I have heartfelt sympathy with that. If I voted for boris an/or brexit or were conservative I would - literally - do anything to avoid taking about THAT. But you're attempts at denial is beginning to verge on Raab's hysterical gabbling on telly. And its about as effective as comical alis attempts to disguise a glaring sordid reality of corruption no one can unsee anymore.
 
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oyster

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This was then:

New vaccines centre to protect UK from pandemic threats

ResearchHealthScience
Published
3 Dec 2018
The UK’s first dedicated Vaccines Manufacturing Innovation Centre (VMIC), announced by Business Secretary Greg Clark MP, represents a major commercial opportunity and also a new front line in the nation’s defence against global pandemic threats.

To be up and running by 2022, the VMIC addresses the UK’s structural gap in late-stage vaccine manufacturing process development. It will allow development and manufacture of vaccines for clinical trials and at moderate scale for emergency preparedness for epidemic threats to the UK population.


Press release Extra £47.6 million for Vaccines Manufacturing and Innovation Centre

The Vaccines Manufacturing and Innovation Centre (VMIC) has been granted an additional £47.6 million to support the expansion and acceleration of the programme.

From: Department of Health and Social Care Published 20 March 2021

This is now:

Government accused of weakening UK’s defences against future variants and pandemics

Exclusive: Ministers criticised for putting flagship vaccine manufacturing centre up for sale, after accelerating its development during the pandemic

Samuel Lovett
Science Correspondent
34 minutes ago
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Woosh

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But he doesn't, he reports Boris to Police and moans about a year old covid rule breach...
it was the Daily Mirror that first reported the story. As it was on the subject of one rule for Tory elite, another for the rest of us, it fell to Angela Rayner's sphere of competence. She duly did her job and asked the police to investigate.
Now it turns out that there were not one but two parties at No 10 last Christmas.
Of course nobody is expected to be sacked on this but it's the drip drip effect that will erode confidence in Boris Johnson's government.
There is now the new secret deal with Pfizer... I duly expect that about the time of the next election, Keir Starmer's Labour will be the party of middle England and BJ lose his majority at the next general election.
 

oyster

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it was the Daily Mirror that first reported the story. As it was on the subject of one rule for Tory elite, another for the rest of us, it fell to Angela Rayner's sphere of competence. She duly did her job and asked the police to investigate.
Of course nobody is expected to be sacked on this but it's the drip drip effect that will erode confidence in Boris Johnson's government.
There is now the new secret deal with Pfizer... I duly expect that about the time of the next election, Keir Starmer's Labour will be the party of middle England and BJ lose his majority at the next general election.
Just because it happened a year ago doesn't mean it should be left alone. There have been many bodies found at least that long after their demise - but someone might well be prosecuted for murder.

Indeed, if it was not known until now, no-one, Angela, Kier or any other person, could have reported the issue.

As well as the Pfizer secret deal, there is the scrapping of Valneva:

Scrapping Valneva Covid vaccine ‘not terribly clever’, warn scientists

Ministers ‘putting all their eggs in one basket’ as French-made jab could help fight omicron variant, says Prof Adam Finn of JCVI


By Joe Pinkstone, Science Correspondent 3 December 2021 • 3:18pm
 

oyster

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Johnson now also telling Raab to draw up plans to deny courts right to adjudicate over government. - Don't like the ruling? Tear it up.

That will not go down well with a lot of people. One here for sure. I'd want courts to maintain their role regardless the hue of the government, whether I voted for it or not.
 
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Zlatan

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It's what you would, increasingly desperately, want us to discuss. And I have heartfelt sympathy with that. If I voted for boris an/or brexit or were conservative I would - literally - do anything to avoid taking about THAT. But you're attempts at denial is beginning to verge on Raab's hysterical gabbling on telly. And its about as effective as comical alis attempts to disguise a glaring sordid reality of corruption no one can unsee anymore.
That's exactly opposite of my opinion/view.
It's playing straight into Boris' hands spending any time on something vast majority of us (including Police) see as a petty waste of time...
Have you actually read my posts.
I, d said there are a whole host of things much more worthy of Starmer’s /Police/Governments time.
Your desire to counter anything I say is blinding your judgement.
My view and comments around this are actually against Boris.. By all means, from his PoV, go ahead get on a crusade to point out they had a party,spends precious time attempting to prosecute them.
It's a brilliant distraction from real issues at hand. It's exactly what Labour have been doing for years. Moan about parties but don't take them to task about that lad killed, secret deals with Pfizer, etc etc. (Irony alert, as I said about a dozen posts ago)
 

Zlatan

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it was the Daily Mirror that first reported the story. As it was on the subject of one rule for Tory elite, another for the rest of us, it fell to Angela Rayner's sphere of competence. She duly did her job and asked the police to investigate.
Now it turns out that there were not one but two parties at No 10 last Christmas.
Of course nobody is expected to be sacked on this but it's the drip drip effect that will erode confidence in Boris Johnson's government.
There is now the new secret deal with Pfizer... I duly expect that about the time of the next election, Keir Starmer's Labour will be the party of middle England and BJ lose his majority at the next general election.
No, Starmer initiated it. Paper picked it from him. (Starmer made enquiry to police)
Screenshot_20211206_081607.jpg

This was reported last week, before DM article. After bringing it up in PM QT Starmer enquired to Police, who made a formal reply. Telling Starmer they do not prosecute historic Covid breaches.
Wether DM ran it or not is irrelevant. Facts are Starmer thought it important enough to bring up in QT. Now, what didn't he ask about? There were only about a hundred more salient issues.
 
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Woosh

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No, Starmer initiated it. Paper picked it from him. (Starmer made enquiry to police)
you are wrong there. The Daily Mirror broke the story on Tuesday 30 Nov, KS took it to PMQ on Wednesday 01 Dec. Rayner asked Simon Cask to investigate and refer to the police on Thursday 02 Dec.

My view and comments around this are actually against Boris..
you are joking, right? The guy is a liability, stop defending him.
 
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jonathan.agnew

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That's exactly opposite of my opinion/view.
It's playing straight into Boris' hands spending any time on something vast majority of us (including Police) see as a petty waste of time...
Have you actually read my posts.
I, d said there are a whole host of things much more worthy of Starmer’s /Police/Governments time.
Your desire to counter anything I say is blinding your judgement.
My view and comments around this are actually against Boris.. By all means, from his PoV, go ahead get on a crusade to point out they had a party,spends precious time attempting to prosecute them.
It's a brilliant distraction from real issues at hand. It's exactly what Labour have been doing for years. Moan about parties but don't take them to task about that lad killed, secret deals with Pfizer, etc etc. (Irony alert, as I said about a dozen posts ago)
This, my friend, is a projection. I'm not talking about parties. That is the tip of an ugly iceberg of conservative corruption. Which is why we are where we are. And something you repeatedly try to avoid recognising as you try to refocus the attention on labour. This would be fine, if it (the state of denial of the electorate from before the brexit vote) wasn't- as it is - the reason why a corrupt elite saw an opportunity to exploit.
 
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Zlatan

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you are wrong there. The Daily Mirror broke the story on Tuesday 30 Nov, KS took it to PMQ on Wednesday 01 Dec. Rayner asked Simon Cask to investigate and refer to the police on Thursday 02 Dec.


you are joking, right? The guy is a liability, stop defending him.
How on earth is criticising pointless attacks on him defending Boris. He wants to be accosted on points folk either think are pointless or with absolutely no negative outcomes.
The date story broke (as I said previously) is irrelevant. Fact is Labour have expended energy and time to a dead end accusation. Starmer, with his previous experience, knows full well its pointless but still pursues it.
Same old story, Tories just smile and think "bring it on, another pointless argument".
And that's in a week when social care has proven to be useless, government have colluded with Pfizer, stopped Velneva, allowed Omicron in, created a farce in booster delivery and no doubt loads more...
But look on here, read papers, watch QT, listen to Starmer /Rayner and what's on their agenda. A fecking party 12 months ago.
 

oyster

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How on earth is criticising pointless attacks on him defending Boris. He wants to be accosted on points folk either think are pointless or with absolutely no negative outcomes.
I don't think this is an issue he wants to be attacked on.

Many had hard times last Christmas, and the contrast between their experiences and those attending "parties" is stark.
 
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Zlatan

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This, my friend, is a projection. I'm not talking about parties. That is the tip of an ugly iceberg of conservative corruption. Which is why we are where we are. And something you repeatedly try to avoid recognising as you try to refocus the attention on labour. This would be fine, if it (the state of denial of the electorate from before the brexit vote) wasn't- as it is - the reason why a corrupt elite saw an opportunity to exploit.
Utter rubbish.
If you criticise anybody it must be worthy.
If not it makes you look pretty stupid,especially so as I keep telling you, there are so many worthy criticisms.
You are doing it now, having your petty personal continued attack on me, but completely missing the real issues.
Real mistakes have been made, having a party last year wasn't one of them.
Give it a rest Agnew. You are doing exactly with me what you do with Tories. Criticise everything... The serious stuff goes by the way.
I am not defending anyone. I, m saying if you have a go, pick your subject and not one nobody cares about.
 

Zlatan

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I don't think this is an issue he wants to be attacked on.

Many had hard times last Christmas, and the contrast between their experiences and those attending "parties" is stark.
That's why police said they wouldn't be following it up.
Yep, MPs are a privileged bunch. All of them.
And, ofcourse he wants to be attacked on it. Its trivial. He knows it, as rest of sensible part of country do. There is absolutely no recourse... "sorry, we won't do it this year, oh but rules are different anyway"..
It's ridiculous and you all know it is.
 
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Woosh

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The date story broke (as I said previously) is irrelevant.
it is relevant. You want everything to be reduced to simple yes/no but the job of a PM is more than just looking for simple yes/no answers. Johnson is lazy and inept, the country deserves better. He should go.
 
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Zlatan

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it is relevant. You want everything to be reduced to simple yes/no but the job of a PM is more than just looking for simple yes/no answers. Johnson is lazy and inept, the country deserves better. He should go.
I actually agree with that now, but having a go at him about a party sure as hell won't bring him down.
It's like a bloke has just driven up M1 at 100 mph, left a trail of incidents behind him, folk jumping out of his way as he speeds through town, does a hand brake turn outside a school and Starmer says he was illegaly parked a year ago.
It's almost condoning the things he has done.
 
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Woosh

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I actually agree with that now, but having a go at him about a party sure as hell won't bring him down.
It's like a bloke has just driven up M1 at 100 mph, left a trail of incidents behind him, folk jumping out of his way as he speeds through town, does a hand brake turn outside a school and Starmer says he was illegaly parked a year ago.
that's not a fair comparison. At last PMQ (01-Dec), BJ avoided to answer a simple question (was it true that you guys had a party last year while the country was in lockdown?) with a simple yes/no not because he does not know the answer but because he knows the consequence if he answered yes. Consequence that he should have thought of last year before allowing it. That's the point, he just did not think then it's important but it is now. Johnson is a liability.
 

Danidl

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Johnson now also telling Raab to draw up plans to deny courts right to adjudicate over government. - Don't like the ruling? Tear it up.

That will not go down well with a lot of people. One here for sure. I'd want courts to maintain their role regardless the hue of the government, whether I voted for it or not.
This is why a written constitution matters.
 
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jonathan.agnew

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I actually agree with that now, but having a go at him about a party sure as hell won't bring him down.
It's like a bloke has just driven up M1 at 100 mph, left a trail of incidents behind him, folk jumping out of his way as he speeds through town, does a hand brake turn outside a school and Starmer says he was illegaly parked a year ago.
It's almost condoning the things he has done.
Nice analogy. You, however, are utterly (and increasingly) desperate for us to discuss and prosecute the policeman (starmer) instead of the criminal. And as ploys go its a bit too obvious.
 

oyster

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They aren't being sentenced, they aren't law enforcers like the police and the police clearly aren't interested in that possibility of a covid regulations breach.

It's old history and there's a strong smell of witch hunting about this non-event staff party, going to any lengths to get them for anything. There's plenty of policy issues that Starmer and the media could more usefully concentrate on.
.
I know they are not being sentenced. It was simply to illustrate that our systems do, at times, hold those who hold certain offices to a higher standard, as evidenced by higher sentences for police who are sentenced. Two otherwise very similar cases would probably see a police officer given a higher sentence because they committed the crime while obligated by their oath to uphold the law.
 

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