Britain's First 'Dutch-Style' Roundabout Closed 10 Days After Opening When Car Ploughed Into Beacon

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
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Interesting, but I see problems here (Germany) with RAs, that have a normal zebra crossing (similar to where the bikes go here), when placed too close to the traffic ring, as a car gets blocked, halts for a pedestrian (slower than a bike!), and the car(s) behind simply plough into the rear of the stopped car!
Too my mind, there should be room for say about 2 cars to halt without blocking the ring.....but of course it will need more space, if that was done.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
Regards
Andy
 

jimriley

Pedelecer
Jun 17, 2020
105
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Interesting, but I see problems here (Germany) with RAs, that have a normal zebra crossing (similar to where the bikes go here), when placed too close to the traffic ring, as a car gets blocked, halts for a pedestrian (slower than a bike!), and the car(s) behind simply plough into the rear of the stopped car!
Too my mind, there should be room for say about 2 cars to halt without blocking the ring.....but of course it will need more space, if that was done.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
Regards
Andy
Another reason to visit Barnard Castle then. Its bad driving by car drivers that needs controlling then.
 

danielrlee

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 27, 2012
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torquetech.co.uk
I have to plead ignorance (I have lived longer in Germany now than anywhere else on this planet, 39 years!), what is Barnard Castle?
I only found this:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnard_Castle
Is this exactly what you were referring to? If yes, why?
Andy
 

sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
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It's a very lovely place and you should visit it.
Just keep a watch out for blind car drivers.
 
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Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
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The Germans love our comedy, still repeating Dinner for One every Christmas :D
Not many Brits know that!
But its actually not at Christmas, its transmitted on 3rd German TV stations (regional) on New Years Eve, (evening), at various times.
Now several TV stations have produced versions in German, or even completely rewritten it, with good actors, again in German, but also with regional accents and some new material.
All are really great.
Andy
PS. Its a great show of Freddy Frinton and May Warden . Timeless comedy. See here the English language version that is still shown every year, IN ENGLISH! Here is the film:-
The original stage play was first shown in London in 1948.
This may help anyone interested in further detail and is a very accurate representation of both the original and other versions (also shown in other countries!):-
I bet that not many people on Pedelec remember these actors clearly!!!! Far too young!! But I do, as we had our first TV in 1950 or so.
The stage show I also remember ads, for sometime in the late 50's early 60's maybe, in London. My father drove past the theater....
regards
Andy
PS. At the end of the film is a saucy joke for 1963, when NDR (Nord Deutsche Rundfunk), made the film in Hamburg!
 
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sjpt

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Jun 8, 2018
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The Germans love our comedy, still repeating Dinner for One every Christmas :D
And the Dane's for New Year. Apparently they didn't show it on New Year and there was nearly rioting.

I hadn't heard of it till our Danish friends told us about it.
 

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
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Here are some other versions that also get shown:-
A Fun explanation in English here:-
A version is a strong North German Dialect, part 1 of 3:-
A full version appears to be here:-
 
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Scorpio

Pedelecer
Apr 13, 2020
80
30
Portugal Algarve (temporary)
What a design disaster! A 5 minute video shows lorrys waiting to get onto the roundabout block cycles & pedestrians, cars leaving the roundabout have to stop with dangerously exposed back ends until there's a gap in the cyclists - just a few cycles causes gridlock on the roundabout. The long bendy-bus just doesn't fit.

Note the driving on the right, I suspect this is a genuine Dutch roundabout used as template for Cambridge

Personal experience says cyclists already have right of way over motorists in some counties in Scandinavia & Europe. Many UK drivers can't cope with the existing rules of the road, expecting them to cope with never-seen-before-in-UK systems is dangerous & crazy.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
46,279
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Many UK drivers can't cope with the existing rules of the road, expecting them to cope with never-seen-before-in-UK systems is dangerous & crazy.
Fully agree. It just about works there because 70% of them cycle and only about 20% of them drive cars regularly.

Here with only a small minority cycling and well over half the population driving it would cause many accidents and could paralyse our roads in some places.
.
 
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Benjahmin

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Nov 10, 2014
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Seems to me it could only work in conjunction with a 20mph limit in a town. This looks like it could be on the outskirts of a town, I don't think we'd currently see anywhere near the volume of pedestrians and cyclists on a British one - even in Cambridge.
 
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mike killay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 17, 2011
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Whenever I return from the continent in my camper van, it is immediately noticeable just how much more traffic there is on UK roads.
This style of roundabout will not work here, it will simply clog up all the traffic.
Also, I suspect that we build far more roundabouts than Europe.
For all the effort involved in building such a structure, I wonder if it would cost much more to provide pedestrian and cycle underpasses. There is one such roundabout outside Ypres where instead of an outer ring, there are underpasses, so my guess is that even in Europe the debate is still on.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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I wonder if it would cost much more to provide pedestrian and cycle underpasses. There is one such roundabout outside Ypres where instead of an outer ring, there are underpasses, so my guess is that even in Europe the debate is still on.
Definitely true, the Dutch have excellent overpasses for biycles too and clearly haven't found which are the best solutions yet.
.
 
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Nealh

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Aug 7, 2014
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Where I live there are some under passes at roundabouts, ok in daylight but not so inviting when groups or gangs gather and a no go at night.
 

Swizz

Pedelecer
Oct 1, 2017
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Definitely true, the Dutch have excellent overpasses for biycles too and clearly haven't found which are the best solutions yet.
.
The Dutch go with fitness for purpose and increase the separation of cycles from motor traffic where motor traffic speed is higher.
 
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Swizz

Pedelecer
Oct 1, 2017
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Sk14
I honestly don't understand the kickback from cyclists with this roundabout. The safety issue is entirely around the speed of motor traffic, and infrastructure like this is designed to reduce that. What needs to change is the 'rush rush' selfish culture of people sat behind a steering wheel and observing any regular UK roundabout will confirm that. Am genuinely sorry if some find this offensive but we cyclists in the UK have nothing positive to teach the Dutch about designing public highways. And yes, reducing the aggressive nature of motorists does have to begin with changing the infrastructure, by making the infrastructure more democratic for everyone.