Brompton nano PAS removal

jonpedal16

Finding my (electric) wheels
May 12, 2017
6
0
47
South Norwood
I've a brompton with a nano system along with a pedal assist sensor and a throttle, but I'm finding it a bit underwhelming due to the pedal assist not coming on when I need it when I have the throttle on. I'd like to remove the pedal assist altogether as I have mobility issues. There's a clear wire from the pedal sensor to the controller, I had hoped unplugging that would do the trick, but that just results in no power at all. Does anyone have any ideas what I need to do? Thanks in advance.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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Basildon
Can you explain that again in different words. It doesn't make sense. I read it as the throttle is working, but the pedal sensor doesn't do anything when you operate the throttle, which is normal because the throttle takes precedence. You want to improve that by removing the pedal sensor!
 

jonpedal16

Finding my (electric) wheels
May 12, 2017
6
0
47
South Norwood
Can you explain that again in different words. It doesn't make sense. I read it as the throttle is working, but the pedal sensor doesn't do anything when you operate the throttle, which is normal because the throttle takes precedence. You want to improve that by removing the pedal sensor!
Apologies, the current setup I believe is that it needs both the throttle pulled and pedals to be moving for the motor to kick in, current EU laws I suppose. However, I think because the sensor is relatively basic I find that the motor doesn't kick in when I need it, there's a small/medium lag. It's actually not very fun to ride, the motor only feels like it comes on when I'm already rolling under my own steam, rather than help me get rolling.

My hope is to remove the pedal assist sensor, so that it only needs me to twist the throttle. Like a moped I guess, which given I'm riding around on private roads it's not really a problem.

Just unplugging the pas sensor from the controller alone does not work, I assume the controller needs signal from both the PAS and throttle for the motor to turn.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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OK, got it now. It never ceases to amaze me what crappiness some suppliers can get into their kits.

There might be some way of fixing it, otherwise a new controller will sort it out. It's difficult to comment without knowing exactly what you have. Photos of all the connections to the controller will help.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Apologies, the current setup I believe is that it needs both the throttle pulled and pedals to be moving for the motor to kick in, current EU laws I suppose. However, I think because the sensor is relatively basic I find that the motor doesn't kick in when I need it, there's a small/medium lag. It's actually not very fun to ride, the motor only feels like it comes on when I'm already rolling under my own steam, rather than help me get rolling.

My hope is to remove the pedal assist sensor, so that it only needs me to twist the throttle. Like a moped I guess, which given I'm riding around on private roads it's not really a problem.

Just unplugging the pas sensor from the controller alone does not work, I assume the controller needs signal from both the PAS and throttle for the motor to turn.
OK, got it now. It never ceases to amaze me what crappiness some suppliers can get into their kits.
unfortunately, it's the law since 1/1/2016. If you don't have to pedal before throttle, then your throttle is a twist and go.
You have to change the firmware in the controller to make yours twist and go.
 

pedalingDave

Finding my (electric) wheels
May 1, 2019
12
3
I remember talking to Tony (who invented the nano kit) and I think he said that the cadence sensor was relatively simple and you could change its behaviour by adding more magnets at the chainwheel. That would reduce the lag before it kicks in. Of course, my memory could be wrong!
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
19,406
16,387
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
I remember talking to Tony (who invented the nano kit) and I think he said that the cadence sensor was relatively simple and you could change its behaviour by adding more magnets at the chainwheel. That would reduce the lag before it kicks in. Of course, my memory could be wrong!
the Gospade has 120 magnets in its pedal sensor for that reason.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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Basildon
unfortunately, it's the law since 1/1/2016. If you don't have to pedal before throttle, then your throttle is a twist and go.
You have to change the firmware in the controller to make yours twist and go.
There's no law that says that you have to have a massive delay before the oedal sendor kicks in!
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
9,822
3,985
Basildon
I remember talking to Tony (who invented the nano kit) and I think he said that the cadence sensor was relatively simple and you could change its behaviour by adding more magnets at the chainwheel. That would reduce the lag before it kicks in. Of course, my memory could be wrong!
I very much doubt that that will work. The delay comes from the controller software. Some controllers take ages to figure out the position of the motor before they can send the commutation pulses.
 

jonpedal16

Finding my (electric) wheels
May 12, 2017
6
0
47
South Norwood
I remember talking to Tony (who invented the nano kit) and I think he said that the cadence sensor was relatively simple and you could change its behaviour by adding more magnets at the chainwheel. That would reduce the lag before it kicks in. Of course, my memory could be wrong!
Thanks, I will look into this, hoping this is as simple as glueing more magnets onto the sensor
 

jonpedal16

Finding my (electric) wheels
May 12, 2017
6
0
47
South Norwood
Thanks to you all, I've a few leads on people to ask but I found this as a sales blurb...trying to understand if throttle and pedelec system use the same controller or if there are seperate controllers for each...meaning I'd have to change my controller.

Throttle or Pedelec.

There is a choice of either a half grip twist grip or thumb throttle which are spring loaded, smooth and proportional or alternatively a pedelec (pedal assist) system.

The half grip twist throttle, is fitted as standard to the right handlebar. The speed can be regulated by twisting the hand throttle up to the legal speed limit of 15 miles per hour. There is a button to switch the system ‘on’ and ‘off’ and LED lights on the throttle to give an indication of the battery charge.

A thumb throttle isavailable on request and is required for P handlebars. It is also fitted on the right handlebar but does not require the handlebar grips to be changed, just removed to fit the throttle. The thumb throttle is activated by holding back the paddle, like the twist grip, the further you push it back the faster you will go.

The pedelec replaces the throttle and gives a range of 6 speeds that are pre-selected. You need to pedal first when using a pedelec which is not the case with the throttles. The Pedelec is a legal requirement in the EU and some other countries.

The throttle, or pedelec, 36V electronic controller and modified luggage block are all supplied as a complete wiring harness."
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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West Sx RH
Speed controllers generally have no PAS output, so you need a controller that offers both an outlet for PAS and throttle.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
19,990
8,173
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West Sx RH
Apologies, the current setup I believe is that it needs both the throttle pulled and pedals to be moving for the motor to kick in, current EU laws I suppose. However, I think because the sensor is relatively basic I find that the motor doesn't kick in when I need it, there's a small/medium lag. It's actually not very fun to ride, the motor only feels like it comes on when I'm already rolling under my own steam, rather than help me get rolling.

My hope is to remove the pedal assist sensor, so that it only needs me to twist the throttle. Like a moped I guess, which given I'm riding around on private roads it's not really a problem.

Just unplugging the pas sensor from the controller alone does not work, I assume the controller needs signal from both the PAS and throttle for the motor to turn.
I have read this again and understand it now, the pas/throttle usage is not stand lone throttle. Since 2016 throttle operation is only possible (legally) once you have engaged the PAS, it is to remove the moped style control of throttle only.

The controller you need is KT model with matching LCD, buy them as a pair.
The settings will allow you to set the throttle as pedal first option or stand alone throttle with out PAS use. Wiring connectors may not match you existing set up so you may need to do some work soldering.
 

jonpedal16

Finding my (electric) wheels
May 12, 2017
6
0
47
South Norwood
I have read this again and understand it now, the pas/throttle usage is not stand lone throttle. Since 2016 throttle operation is only possible (legally) once you have engaged the PAS, it is to remove the moped style control of throttle only.

The controller you need is KT model with matching LCD, buy them as a pair.
The settings will allow you to set the throttle as pedal first option or stand alone throttle with out PAS use. Wiring connectors may not match you existing set up so you may need to do some work soldering.
Thanks, I had hoped it'd be a simple job, but sounds like I need a new controller and new wiring. Ouch.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
19,990
8,173
60
West Sx RH