Canyon Grail:On vs. Specialized Turbo Creo SL Comp Carbon Evo

[brandon98]

Hi,

I'm planning to leave my car @home more often and commute to work via pedelec (that I don't own yet...).
The idea is to travel to work (around 12 km - one way) with as much assistance as needed to NOT arrive all sweaty.
On my way home I'd like to reduce the motor assist so I have some sort of workout to tweak my fitness (and hopefully lose some weight too).

I tried both pedelecs, and they were both fun. I don't have a dedicated garage to charge the batteries, nor do I have the space @home to charge the pedelec there.
The only option that I have (which may sound more awful than it actually is) is to carry the pedelec to my basement storage room and charge it there.
With the grail I have the option to detach the battery - so that would be a pro on Canyon's account.

I'd love to read about your opinions on this.

Thanks a lot!

 

[vfr400]

Price is ridiculous. Also, they're not commute bikes. You should be able to get a good rear hub-motored commuter bike for around £1000 with a removable battery.

 

[Woosh]

I don't have a dedicated garage to charge the batteries, nor do I have the space @home to charge the pedelec there.
The only option that I have (which may sound more awful than it actually is) is to carry the pedelec to my basement storage room and charge it there.

you need a dry place to store your bike. The basement may not be ideal.
Also, if you have to take your battery from the basement to your flat to charge, a larger capacity battery that does not need charging every day is worth considering.

 

[richtea99]

How about the Canyon Roadlite:ON. Less weight, removable battery, spare cash.

Fitness E-Bike | Roadlite:ON

Fitness E-Bike | The Canyon Roadlite:ON is the perfect combination of e-bike power and the sportive feeling of a fitness bike

www.canyon.com

Or an Endurace:ON if you're after drop bars:

Buy electric road bikes online

Is it worth buying an e-road bike? Find your electric road bike at Canyon ► racing DNA ✓ clean design ✓ lightweight ✓ powerful motor ✓ cycling fun guaranteed

www.canyon.com

Only 12Km each way means you can use full power all the way, for probably 2 days (4*12Km), or a lot longer if you use lower power, or intermittent power.

 

[brandon98]

Thanks for your replies!
When I visited Canyon I tried literally EVERY Pedelec that was available (inkl. Pathlite:On and Precede:On).
The Fazua enabled bikes were simply not as much fun IMHO. There was also that annoying clacking sound each time you re-start to actively push the pedals. This is no Canyon issue, I tried several Fazua Pedelecs, and it's just the design of that system. I also thought that the assistance on Fazua bikes only really kicks in at a specific speed. So when you start pedaling from 0 km/h there was not much of an assistance, but then - it kicked in.
I was impressed by both: the Grail AL 7.0 (bio-bike) and the Grail:ON.
Everything was perfect and all set to get the Grail:ON, but then I saw that Specialized Creo SL Evo...

@vfr400:
I would rather avoid rear-hub motors as they technically don't benefit from the gear I'm currently in and tend to overheat in certain scenarios.

It's going to be one of those 2 pedelecs... that's for sure
I tend to go for Canyon.
Thanks a lot for your feedback.

 

[Woosh]

I would rather avoid rear-hub motors as they technically don't benefit from the gear I'm currently in and tend to overheat in certain scenarios.

both can equally suffer from overheating when climbing slowly but I accept that good use of gears on a crank drive can minimise the issue. The popular 85SX rear hub Aikema motor commonly seen on lightweight road bikes has an internal reduction ratio of 1:12.6, maximum torque 42NM, when it stalls, the maximum torque on the rotor is only 42/12.6=3.3NM, not enough to damage anything. Also, the power drops rapidly near stalling speed.

 

[richtea99]

The Fazua enabled bikes were simply not as much fun IMHO. There was also that annoying clacking sound each time you re-start to actively push the pedals. This is no Canyon issue, I tried several Fazua Pedelecs, and it's just the design of that system. I also thought that the assistance on Fazua bikes only really kicks in at a specific speed. So when you start pedaling from 0 km/h there was not much of an assistance, but then - it kicked in.

Fun? It's a commute - you're not allowed to have fun! [fast-dials the Fun Police]

You definitely get a lot of clacking if you backpedal a Fazua (even on slight backpedals), but I've not had any noises on forward motion.

In terms of the assistance it is quite gentle (on purpose). The Fazua 'Black Pepper' update in April improved that, so if you tested a non-Black Pepper bike that wouldn't have helped. I've never tried a Grail:ON so it's interesting to know there's that big a difference, though. Good info, thanks.

 

[Amoto65]

Everything was perfect and all set to get the Grail:ON, but then I saw that Specialized Creo SL Evo...

I have just got one of these and I have to say it is amazing, previously I have had a Juicy Click, Wisper 905, Carrera Crossfire and a Carrera Crossfuse and while they were all excellent bikes (apart from the Crossfire) the Specialized is in a different class, it is fast, light and more than capable up the hills around the Peak District.

 

[Artstu]

If your commute is relatively flat rather than uphill and downhill with gradients of more than 3% then I would imagine your commute is going to be rather frustrating on those bikes with standard assist speeds and actually slower than a nice 8kg racing bike.

 

[vfr400]

I would rather avoid rear-hub motors as they technically don't benefit from the gear I'm currently in and tend to overheat in certain scenarios.

Some saesman or sombebody else is conning you. It's true that if some overweight unfit blob of jelly jumped on an ebike and tried to ride it up a steep hill, something might get a bit warm. An average person won't have any problems even on the steepest hills.

Every tpe of motor has it's own advantages and disadvantages, but I can tell you that hub-motors are far more reliable than any crank-motor. Also, running costs are a lot lower

 

[Woosh]

I can tell you that hub-motors are far more reliable than any crank-motor.

are you trying to ruin my next year strategy? My Rambla with Bafang MaxDrive is selling like hot cakes and customers absolutely love it.

 

[brandon98]

It seems to me that the Grail:On is more suited to rougher terrain. I mean 50mm tyres on road sounds like there's something odd. But you do get that additional "suspension". And don't get me wrong - I'll use it primarily for trips to work and back home where the trip contains 70% smooth road and 30%... well whatever it is - it's not even fun to drive those by car.
The Specialized is lighter, and more customizable in terms of cockpit tuning if needed. It has those 38mm tyres that are a perfect choice in combination with the Future Shock suspension.
On top there are local Specialized retailers to support me if things go south for any reason.
The internal battery might become a problem as soon as it gets cold outside (and in my basement compartment) as low temperatures are not battery friendly from what I heard.
Tough choice (for me at least). But hey - the list of options got narrowed to 2 pedelecs. That was a rather long journey until now

 

[vfr400]

are you trying to ruin my next year strategy? My Rambla with Bafang MaxDrive is selling like hot cakes and customers absolutely love it.

Tony, I have been watching how you bend narratives and facts to guide people towards the bikes you have in stock. Good luck to you. I know you're only trying to finance your lifestyle. As you know, people will accept any bullshit you give them. The more complicated you make the theories and explanations, the more they swallow it. It's not difficult to program them to buy what you want to sell them.

Luckily for me, my lifestyle is a lot less expensive than yours and I don't have to rely on elctric bike stuff to finance it, so I'm in an independent situation, where I can say things as they are.

Like hub-motored bikes, crank-drive ones have some advantages in some situations, but those situations tend to be exclusive to commuting.

 

[Woosh]

I have already sold out the last batch of Ramblas - the next batch will be here around March. I don't have much stock to speak of and certainly no crank drive bikes between now and March so this post has no commercial motive.
My point of view is not black and white simply because I put myself into the situation of the OP or the particular customer. I love all motors, be it front, middle or rear and I take into account performance, user interface and feel.
I think Bafang have perfected their middle motors in all those aspects and can compete with European Bosch and likes. After 3 years, I have gained a lot of confidence in Bafang crank drives and will build more bikes with them.
For those who like to look after their motor themselves, the MaxDrive is particularly easy to service and spares are available on the net. No special tool to worry about. If you compare the price I charge for the MaxDrive against the Shengyi hub motor, you pay about £250 for the MaxDrive over the Shengyi hub motor. It's rather good value for money for the superior user interface and feel alone.

 

[richtea99]

The internal battery might become a problem as soon as it gets cold outside (and in my basement compartment) as low temperatures are not battery friendly from what I heard.

Riding it in the cold is fine, as is storage. However charging it in the cold it isn't. Below 0C is a no-no, I believe.

+5C is the suggested minimum for my internal battery bike, which means I need to drag the whole bike indoors, in deep winter, to charge it.

You might also find yours has a maximum time to leave it charging - mine is 5 hours max, so leaving it overnight isn't wise/possible in my case. Have a close read of the blurb first!

 

[brandon98]

@richtea99:

Thanks a lot for that info! I'll have a closer look at what Specialized suggests.

 

[Amoto65]

Which colour are you thinking of?

 

[brandon98]

In general? Black.
But for the pedelecs: BLUE for the Grail:On and that "darker-whatever-color-it-is" for the Turbo Creo.

Turns out the color's official Specialized name is Gloss Navy/White Mountains...

 

[Amoto65]

In general? Black.
But for the pedelecs: BLUE for the Grail:On and that "darker-whatever-color-it-is" for the Turbo Creo.

Turns out the color's official Specialized name is Gloss Navy/White Mountains...

That is the colour that I went for, it seems to have a metalflake in it that changes slightly darker or lighter depending on the light.

 

[brandon98]

Here's what the Specialized manual says about temperatures:

"Only operate the battery between the temperature range of -20°C (-4°F) and +60°C (+140°F)"

...

"Only charge the battery at an ambient temperature between 0°C and +45°C (+32°F and 113°F). If outside temperatures are too hot or too cold, charge the battery inside. For safety reasons, if the battery is too hot or too cold, it will not charge."

 

[richtea99]

Yup, that's the same as my Orbea (ebikemotion system) - use the bike below 0°C, but don't charge it below 0°C.
The good news is that the Specialized won't actually allow it. I'm not sure the ebikemotion system actively blocks charging at low temps, as Specialized does.

Is any limit on maximum charging time mentioned? If so, does the charger also protect against accidental long charges? (Again I don't think mine does - it's up to me to pull the plug after 5 hours or less)