challenge..

redbites

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jun 19, 2007
8
0
hi i love bikes, my daily commute to london from pinner is 32 mls and i do this on a motorbike (triumph speedtriple). i'm looking to get 'moderately' fit riding to work on an electric bike. i also have a marin larkspur which i absolutely love (ok the seat is a bit firm..)

unlike motorbikes which you can test ride for hours, are there any good dealers i can approach for a test ride?

the next challenge :

what sort of electric bike should i opt for? i see that the electric bike market appears to be split between hubs you bolt on (bionz, heinzmann) and dedicated bikes (whisper, giant etc). should i bolt on or pedalec?

things i need to consider are range (32 miles round trip on 1 charge), torque (to get me up 2 steep inclines, harrow on the hill and that long stretch between shepherds bush and notting hill), reliability and speed (do they have to be restricted to 15mph?)

thanks a million for any advice on this!
 

Ian

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 1, 2007
1,333
0
Leicester LE4, UK.
Welcome to the forum Redbites. What you are asking certainly is a challenge, and I doubt that there is anything on the market that will realistically and reliably do 32 miles on a charge with two steep inclines thrown in, even a bike that would do it when new would soon suffer from battery deterioration reducing the range to below what is required. Your only chance, apart from lots of heavy legwork, is to carry an additional battery to extend the range.

A test ride can be arranged with many suppliers, some of them advertising on this forum, and they can be contacted through their respective websites.

A few bikes can have the 15 mph limiter removed, although that will obviously render them illegal on public roads ;) , this will however reduce the range to the point where two batteries would probably be insufficient for your journey.

Ian
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,765
30,351
Hello Redbites, welcome to the forum. As Ian said, that range is well beyond what most e-bikes could manage.

The only bike giving that sort of range is the newly introduced Giant Twist I with front hub motor. That has twin lithium batteries that on test produced 32 miles but which with care would have gone a bit further. The problem as Ian also said is that capacity drops with age, and within six months it wouldn't complete the trip.

The only possibility apart from two batteries as suggested is if you could organise charging at the midway point.
.
 

redbites

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jun 19, 2007
8
0
thanks guys. wow this is a great forum. fantastic website as well.

i have been checking out some external links from this site. so many possibilities! i never knew pedalecs and e-bikes were so popular. incredible.

how do my options stack up if i buy an additional charger? so 16 miles each charge? it looks like hub units are quite popular / is this the way to go? my marin is aluminium has city treads... (so thanks to this site) i'd be looking at a torquey motor, has good speed (as in >15mph), is engineered to perfection (silent, reliable) and the battery that has good hold / discharge ability for 15 miles (lithium-ion?)

the nano hub looks like an incredible piece of engineering. there are no reviews on this site..

what are your thoughts?
Tim
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,765
30,351
Hi Tim, thanks for the kind comments.

A to B magazine are currently testing the Nano motor in a Brompton folder, and with luck the test will be in the June issue. The editor tells me he's quite impressed, just the odd niggle with the outfit.

Any hub motor or hub motor bike will give you 15 mph, and many will give you rather more. Almost all will give you a range of at least 15 miles, and the moderate power ones give over 20 miles without trouble.

Check out the Powacycle Salisbury. That will perform to 15 mph and give around 22 to 25 miles range on the NiMh version and a bit more on the Lithium version, which is also faster. Low prices too, £495 and £595, and the replacement batteries have the lowest prices on the market. They will climb hills, but aren't the most powerful for that. So long as you're prepared to do your bit to help they'd do the job though.

Here's the site page.

Another advantage with those is that the charger is small enough to carry with you, or a second one is only £40.
.
 
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coops

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 18, 2007
1,225
1
Manchester U.K.
Hi redbites and a warm welcome :)

I like a "challenge" :D.
When you say 32 miles "round trip" is that 16miles each way, or 32 each way! :eek: either way, you say 32 miles per charge?

I find I can get at least 20 miles (delimited Torq) with moderate pedalling at speeds between 15 & 20mph, on a new battery though and relatively flat, though some mixed length gentle inclines; more than that if you count downhill stretches :D.

There's quite a bit of information on this forum about kits vs ready-made ebikes and the pro's and cons of different motor types, an ongoing thread on What makes an efficient on road e-bike? covers some of this & may be of interest to you...

I hope thats useful.

Stuart.
 

coops

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 18, 2007
1,225
1
Manchester U.K.
Hi Tim
redbites said:
what are your thoughts?
Take a look at both these threads: you'd have to confirm any information given, & that its the same motor, but from the specs I don't think its a very torquey motor, and the motor's design seems to put point of maximum torque at a relatively very high rpm and peak power is not too high, so probably not good for steep hills, inclines may be ok. Its quiet, quite efficient and low power makes it economic, but it seems from that thread reliability may have been an issue: up to you to verify & decide as I say :).

I've asked here about the same motor, and the questions & conclusions I came to on its torque are here.
Stuart.
 
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redbites

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jun 19, 2007
8
0
thanks for the advice. i will check out the links today... and of course read all the threads which are extremely useful

i can't believe how much detail and expertise / advice has gone in on this forum: and threads about amps, volts (48:eek: ) and watts. did my eyes deceive me or did i see a rear hub rated at 1.5kw:eek:

looks like i need to dust off the old bike shorts and get myself fit (not a bad thing)

i await a to b's road test results about the nano. a good test can always iron out the production processes

thx tim
 

allotmenteer

Pedelecer
Nov 21, 2006
230
0
Aldershot, Hampshire
Kits - a word of warning

Hello Tim

If you are leaning towards a kit be careful to get as much info as possible on the kit. Most hub motor kits are too wide for standard bike frames / forks and you may have to bend the frame. I wouldn't really advise this for an aluminium frame though they can be spread a little. Also front forks have their dropouts 100mm apart but different forks have widely varying clearances further away from the axle. Hub motors can have quite a large diameter and thus you'll need forks that are wide enough quite far up the fork.

If you go for a rear hubmotor you will be limited to at most a 7 speed screw on freewheel sprocket which may not be suitable for your marin larkspur. In practice you may not be able to fit at 7 speed due to the width of the hub motor + sprocket. I have a kit and I can only fit a 5 speed sprocket on it, though I may be able to get a 6 or even 7 speed on if I have the wheel respoked and dished properly.

The chainline can suffer somewhat with the rear hub motors too. You'll spend most of your time using the smaller sprockets at the rear and thus you'll want the chainline to be as straight as possible on these gears. You may have to get a longer axle on the bottom bracket to achieve this.

Kits also suffer from the problem of where to put the battery. I currently use panniers but am going to get the welder out soon to weld a bracket to the seat tube / down tube to hold the battery. Ditto the controller.

As for battery chemistry, I would go for Nimh if you can as the lithium ones can suffer from cutting out / exhaustion on long hills.

Paul
 

rsscott

Administrator
Staff member
Aug 17, 2006
1,398
193
Hi Tim,

welcome to the forum, glad you are finding it of use. We have a fantastic community here as you can see!

I'm suspecting your route is approx 16 miles each way having a quick look at Google maps which is definitely achieavable by electric bike. Most bikes will give you that range and more and you should easily make it in under an hour. I would suggest charging at work if you can ready for the return journey.

There is lots of info here on Lithium batteries and consensus is it is better not to deep discharge them so even if you can get the full 32 miles on one charge, I still feel charging during the day would help promote longevity of the battery.

If you are able to make the New Forest event next month, you'll have an opportunity to put several bikes to the test.
 

redbites

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jun 19, 2007
8
0
thanks paul, thanks russ. really useful info there.

yep, my route would be pinner - harrow on the hill - notting hill - thru hyde park - then cross over park lane into work on conduit street. that's the plan. looks like about 14 miles as well.. now need to get a decent map to find the best and safest route.

looks like decent bikes for <800. i'd probably spend that on a hub system?! and it looks like good bikes hold their value quite well.

looks like nimh batteries are the way to go then! need to refresh on my engineering notes about batteries and deep discharge, current, m/ah, watts/kg.hr etc! looks like this is the right place to get the info on as well.

i have to say the whisper 905se looks very tempting. i see they are offering lith-polymer as well. wow, a big phone battery! but i guess not much in way of torque..?