Cheap e-bike? £600?

[Max1980]

Hi guys, great forum!

I'm looking for a cheap e-bike option to get back into cycling. The plan is to do little day trips around London with my gf who just got a VanMoof. It won't be for commuting but it would be nice if I could swap some journeys. For reference I'm 5'7 and 140lbs. I would guess the range would need to be between 20-30miles.

Unfortunately I can't really justify spending big money at this point in time so I've narrowed it down to a few options. The goal is to end up with something fun that I can grow with.

1 - Used Carrera, Lombard, Chinese fat bike - These can be had for £600ish but the obvious worry is that they will have no warranty and if anything goes wrong parts could be hard to get hold of.

2 - New Amazon/Chinese bike - Brand new, 1yr warranty, good reviews but what happens if something goes wrong in a years time? scrap heap?

3 - DIY my own bike - If I don't go super high end in theory I could build something pretty cool. I have to admit I'm drawn to the UDX look, retro BMX cruisers etc


Any advice?

 

[Nealh]

Bosh and others get away with it because the eu/regulators dislike china hub kits and hub bikes, bosh etal label their motors 250w and they are wholly believed. Also they keep very quiet and don't mention at all the controller current rating or potential max watts output, which most who can do simple maths know are not truly compliant with the law.
They try and diss the china midrives etc ,etc but keep quiet about there false specs for their motors much like the diesel emissions hocupocus going on.
We know that a 36v system reputedily said by many to output 800w can't have a docile legal current applied, so the current rating must be circa 11/12a nomianl with a 22/23a max output rating.

 

[Woosh]

Going from the legal mode which peaks around 400W the so called 1000W mode only goes up to about 500W, the 1000W claim must be absolute peak power. That battery will be fine I'm sure but if the display is set to the right assistance speed limit there certainly won't be any problems.

the disadvantage of those direct drive kits is clear when climbing a steep hill.
Imagine doing that with your car stuck in fifth gear. The motor will not run in its sweet zone, the more you try to compensate for the lack of torque, the more current it will pump until the controller reaches its maximum current. A geared motor with a typical 5 to 1 gear reduction gives you the torque you need while weighing a lot less.

 

[Nealh]

There are very few or no non oem 250w 48v hub motors but one can buy for instance the AKM 48v geared hub but it is 500 or 800w rated. This rating seems to fit the US market perfectly but not the rest of the world.
The wattage is whatever the maker puts on the motor and tbh they can put what ever marking they wish on a motor to suit the market, but most are directed to the US market.

 

[Nealh]

The battery has very little detail on the spec's, no idea of cells used or current rating. Many of these sellers simply plonk a 1000w rating ona 48v battery and often they just aren't up to the job. One simply doesn't just buy a battery on the off chance like has been done and then decide a 1kw chepa hub kit will be fine, I bet the Op doesn't even know how to match a battery and controller together for effective use and safety.

 

[soundwave]

problem is with these cheap bikes is that they use rubbish cells as why there are that cheap in the first place and wont last long.

so for a decent batt with decent cells is going to cost most of that 600 quid on its own.

eBike Batteries

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they custom make packs for ebikes so can make it any shape and size you want and offer warranty.

 

[Max1980]

problem is with these cheap bikes is that they use rubbish cells as why there are that cheap in the first place and wont last long.

so for a decent batt with decent cells is going to cost most of that 600 quid on its own.

eBike Batteries

ebikebatteries.co.uk

they custom make packs for ebikes so can make it any shape and size you want and offer warranty.

Yeah unfortunately there's gonna have to be some compromises!

I think the battery being a consumable will have to take the hit if I DIY. Hopefully a 12AH will do initially. What do you think? waste of time?

 

[cyclebuddy]

In your situation the cheapest e-bike I'd consider is a Fiido D4S at about £680 delivered, bought direct, delivered from UK warehouse.

Brand new, full warranty, support from a handful of London dealers, 10.4Ah battery with decent (but not premium) cells. They last well if not abused.

Foldable for home/work storage and carriage on public transport/commuting.

It's not perfect, but IMHO good value and as it's been around for a few years now, quite well proven. The few known issues with it are minor and entirely avoidable with maintenance (rear/motor spokes loosening if handled roughly). All spares available direct from Fiido's website; IMHO it'll be supported for a long while yet.

At your weight, it'll fly along, and can be speed unlocked to 20mph+ easily - if that's a risk you want to take as many do.

 

[soundwave]

but it wont be 12ah as they lie about the capacity then you get voltage sag and bike cuts off.

the batt will end up in the bin but i have 2 bosch batts and there 6 and 8 years old and still working but down on range as expected.

you get what you pay for at the end of the day and as the batt makes the bike go you dont want to skimp on the batt as a well built good one will last for years.

 

[cyclebuddy]

but it wont be 12ah as they lie about the capacity then you get voltage sag and bike cuts off.

the batt will end up in the bin but i have 2 bosch batts and there 6 and 8 years old and still working but down on range as expected.

you get what you pay for at the end of the day and as the batt makes the bike go you dont want to skimp on the batt as a well built good one will last for years.

You're making assumptions, and I'm working with reality. Fiido cells are IMHO pretty respectable given the low cost of the bikes they're selling. My own Fiido D11 claims a 417Wh battery, and guess what? It was and still is, albeit only in its second year of use.

Loads of long-term Fiido owners on the Facebook users group: Generally, the trashed batteries are those that are abused/neglected, and that happens irrespective of the cells used. Take an overweight rider on an unlocked bike and ride it like a moped on throttle only... or leave it uncharged for months.

The OP has clearly stated he doesn't have the budget for a 4k Haibike running a £700 Bosch battery like you SW!

 

[soundwave]

i never said get a 4k haibike but a decent batt will last for years and then build the bike around that as if it all falls apart you still have the batt which will be the most expensive part anyway and hub motors and controllers are cheap to replace.

but it all depends on usage and how far and fast you want to go.

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[PaulM]

A Woosh kit and a used donor bike wouldn't be much above £600.

 

[soundwave]

as long you have warranty just incase anything goes wrong then a woosh kit should be fine.

just dont try to mount the batt on the handle bars

 

[Max1980]

In your situation the cheapest e-bike I'd consider is a Fiido D4S at about £680 delivered, bought direct, delivered from UK warehouse.

Brand new, full warranty, support from a handful of London dealers, 10.4Ah battery with decent (but not premium) cells. They last well if not abused.

Foldable for home/work storage and carriage on public transport/commuting.

It's not perfect, but IMHO good value and as it's been around for a few years now, quite well proven. The few known issues with it are minor and entirely avoidable with maintenance (rear/motor spokes loosening if handled roughly). All spares available direct from Fiido's website; IMHO it'll be supported for a long while yet.

At your weight, it'll fly along, and can be speed unlocked to 20mph+ easily - if that's a risk you want to take as many do.

Thanks!

I like the idea of the D4S as it'll always be useful even if I buy something more expensive down the line..

 

[soundwave]

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[Max1980]

A Woosh kit and a used donor bike wouldn't be much above £600.

That was my thought, used bikes are very cheap and have the added benefit of working well without power too

 

[Max1980]

the batt will end up in the bin but i have 2 bosch batts and there 6 and 8 years old and still working but down on range as expected.

I would have thought batteries, like computers, would be best on a shorter upgrade cycle since they improve and get cheaper each year. Is it different for bikes? I guess they haven’t had quite the same investment as cars

 

[guerney]

That was my thought, used bikes are very cheap and have the added benefit of working well without power too

There's an unpowered motor resistance factor to consider, which feels significant enough for me to move down a couple of gears on my bbs01b mid-drive conversion. Of course, some of that is due to the weight of the kit with battery.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

I would definitely go down the new ebike kit and s/hand bike route. You'll be getting a fresh battery and motor but be able to get a decent bike secondhand to use with it. The Yose kits can be good. I think somewhere around £350-400 they do kits with batteries and these can be purchased directly from yose or sometimes they have listings on ebay. The important thing is they have some stock they ship from the UK.

Based on your weight and budget I would go with a rear wheel hub drive kit.

Which bike to aim for is another matter. Obviously you will be limited by what is available locally to you on ebay, facebook marketplace etc. However the good thing about buying a kit is later on you can always move the kit to another bike if you decide to change bikes and of course being a kit makes spares availability and upgrade options easy.

I would definitely look at if there are suitable kits for any bike you are considering and think about how suitable a bike is for an ebike kit.

I personally think the best bike option is something overbuilt preferably with a chromoly steel frame. Maybe a fully rigid mountain bike with 26" wheels. I think steel makes life easier and safer when it comes to fitting ebike kits. I also think mountain bikes typically have better brakes. Many kits come with brake levers which are suitable for V and mechanical disc brakes. I'd probably aim to use those as is rather than buy additional sensors etc needed for hydraulic disc brakes or road style brake levers.

Looking locally to me this is the sort of thing I would be considering and would leave plenty of cash for upgrades, saddle, V brake mechanisms etc. Parts of the bike I wouldn't need like the cantilever brakes or rear wheel so would sell on those after cleaning them up at a fixed price on ebay. Might get £8 plus postage for a full cantilever set and £17 plus postage for the rear wheel if its freehub based.

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[Waspy]

Retro Marin Bobcat Trail Mountain Bike | eBay

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That bike looks like a total money pit to me. Plus you would need time, workspace, tools, skills and money for parts. I mean, it would be fun doing it but I have no idea if OP has all that.

£600 is nearly an impossible budget but you could get a Woosh kit for £540 and one of these very simple, brand new, steel, Indi 'mountain' bike for £140 from Halfords for a total of £680.

But you are still going to need a few tools and know how to work on bikes.

 

[Waspy]

I have to admit I'm drawn to the UDX look, retro BMX cruisers etc

I'm with you, I love the Fairdale range of bikes, like oversize BMX. I would love to convert one to electric. Better get your credit card out!