Cheap tv offer

[the_killjoy]

I was watching the tv shopping channel Ideal World which had an electric folding bike discounted to £499, normally £699. Very much the basic underpowered bike we all look down on.

However when you look at the reviews, assuming they are genuine, there are a lot of satisfied customers. This shows that we often overestimate what 'ordinary ' people want which is a bike which will just take them a couple of miles down the road to the shops.

http://www.idealworld.tv/gb/pp/e-life-voyage-6sp-36v-250w-electric-folding-bike-20inch-wheel-373973?query=fh_view_size=24&fh_location=%2f%2fidealworld%2fen_GB%2fcategories@lt;%7bidealworld_1002%7d%2fcategories@lt;%7bidealworld_1002_11345%7d&fh_sort=-onair_iw%2c-salescash_iw%2c-hasimage_iw%2c-new_iw%2c-salesunits_iw%2c-average_overall_rating_iw%2c-stock_iw

 

[Croxden]

I met a couple on the Tissington trail who had bought two. Only the second time out but they were pleased with them, they looked good too.

It gets them out and exercising, getting fresh air into their lungs and enjoying the ride. What's not to like?

Had these been available when I started looking I could well have been as happy as I am now and saves a shilling.

 

[the_killjoy]

One gets the impression that the big sellers that are here do, with the exception of Getc , sell very much to the converted and maybe should be advertising in non bike magazines. Such as hobby and WI magazines.

 

[Nealh]

They often have then at 499 but still a bargain for a little run about, I wonder though how many languish in the shed or garage after being used a few times.

 

[the_killjoy]

I agree, but as a seller do you care if it ends up at the back of the shed?

Its like the Gtech discussion, we tend to discuss it from the point if view of the enthusiast not of the target market.

 

[Woosh]

but as a seller do you care if it ends up at the back of the shed?

Yes. It's a failure (for us) if it does not get used.
We have a secondhand page on our website for cases like that.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I think that these cheap bikes are just what the industry needs to stimulate the market. I reckon that every ebike sold, regardless of which type or how much they cost, generates the sale of at least one more somewhere else. Anybody in the trade knows that when you sell a bike, the owner tells his friends/colleagues/neighbours/family about it, which then, in many cases, makes them want one too.

Apart from that, many of them are good taster bikes, from which the owners progress to more serious ones later.

Also, they might not be the best, but with a new cost of £500, they'd still be worth £250 even as a non-runner if something did go wrong and couldn't be fixed, so that's only a loss of £250 compared with a loss of about £600 the moment you wheel your £2400 bike out of the showroom in perfect condition. In most cases, these cheap bikes don't break down anyway, except that most probably soon meet their demise through lack of use or lack of servicing.

 

[Woosh]

I don't think cheap bikes (£700 or less) are value for money.
The mechanical bike will fail long before the electrics.
The better compromise is about 50/50, half of the cost goes on the mechanical bike (£500) and the other half on the electrics (£500).
You'll get a mechanical bike of reasonable quality, decent brakes, suspension, crankset, pedals, tyres etc. and a 15AH battery.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I don't think cheap bikes (£700 or less) are value for money.
The mechanical bike will fail long before the electrics.
The better compromise is about 50/50, half of the cost goes on the mechanical bike (£500) and the other half on the electrics (£500).
You'll get a mechanical bike of reasonable quality, decent brakes, suspension, crankset, pedals, tyres etc. and a 15AH battery.

By fail, I guess you mean that they need servicing. On the cheapest bikes, I've seen the bottom bracket and steering head bearings need adjusting/replacement , but that's about it. What else is there to fail apart from rusty chains and worn out brakes, caused by neglect that can happen to any bike.

 

[Woosh]

What else is there to fail apart from rusty chains and worn out brakes, caused by neglect that can happen to any bike.

Our traditional customers are quite capable of looking after their bikes, but as the market grows, you see more and more people buying a cheap bike as a transport to go from A to B because the bus service does not work all hours.
They are the ones who need a bike that does not get a puncture ever and never need pumping up nor new brake pads, chains that still shift when caked in grit, suspension forks that never seize even left in the rain for months in a year, pedals that never need replacing or lubricated, in short, a bike that works just as well as a 50cc Honda but does not need filling up with petrol, taxed, insurance and wearing a helmet. They are the ones who would go to Halfords and buy a Coyote Connect or a Somerby and sometimes a folding Gale from us.

 

[Emo Rider]

This looks like a rebranded Viking Harrier, sold by Avocett Sports. If it is, £499.00 is a most excellent price for the spec delivered. I have not seen any problems with the Harrier over the last three years that is quality or system related. I nice semi light bike (for an e-folder) and works well for what it is. Having said that, there are a lot of folders out there that are much better. You get what you pay for.

 

[Danidl]

I don't think cheap bikes (£700 or less) are value for money.
The mechanical bike will fail long before the electrics.
The better compromise is about 50/50, half of the cost goes on the mechanical bike (£500) and the other half on the electrics (£500).
You'll get a mechanical bike of reasonable quality, decent brakes, suspension, crankset, pedals, tyres etc. and a 15AH battery.

.. there is no product that with a bit of additional engineering. if Cannot be ,made cheaper, and less reliable and maybe more profitable, The trick is to engineer it so that these limitations are not obvious. I might have suggested a 33% split to each of battery, motor electrics and mechanical frame.

 

[Woosh]

.. there is no product that with a bit of additional engineering. if Cannot be ,made cheaper, and less reliable and maybe more profitable, The trick is to engineer it so that these limitations are not obvious. I might have suggested a 33% split to each of battery, motor electrics and mechanical frame.

after you take out the VAT and material cost, you still have two components that, albeit can be scaled up, can't be scaled down. Both relate to human presence: before sale service and after sale service. Because e-bikes are complex products without much of an industry maturity, these two components constantly evolve and require continuous product training, are more expensive than what you would spend on selling comparable £700 products.

 

[Wynne0648]

Very interesting thread, being someone very much a newbie to e bikes, who has looked at much of late on here, i tended to get the impression cheap bikes in the £500 / 700 price range were just not worth it, although i do agree cheaper bike will get people interested. I also have found on visiting some dealers, they tend to rubbish cheap bikes. No names mentioned but we had gone in to look at a well known bike in the £1100 price range, and they just kept pointing to £1800+ bikes, even though they could get the cheaper one in, if sir really wanted it. Needless to say we left with nothing.

 

[topographer]

Very interesting thread, being someone very much a newbie to e bikes, who has looked at much of late on here, i tended to get the impression cheap bikes in the £500 / 700 price range were just not worth it, although i do agree cheaper bike will get people interested. I also have found on visiting some dealers, they tend to rubbish cheap bikes. No names mentioned but we had gone in to look at a well known bike in the £1100 price range, and they just kept pointing to £1800+ bikes, even though they could get the cheaper one in, if sir really wanted it. Needless to say we left with nothing.

As a kid my parents always bought me cheap bikes for Christmas and they were used robustly every day and rarely had problems other than punctures. So I don't understand the logic of cheap bikes being unreliable. Perhaps my childhood bikes were built in Britain before the shift to China and had to meet certain British Standards.

 

[Danidl]

As a kid my parents always bought me cheap bikes for Christmas and they were used robustly every day and rarely had problems other than punctures. So I don't understand the logic of cheap bikes being unreliable. Perhaps my childhood bikes were built in Britain before the shift to China and had to meet certain British Standards.

.. for cheap bikes, think 100 euro or 99£ . These do work, will not be well passivated, so rust quickly and will have soft metal nuts etc they do work but ultimately are unsatisfactory. An ordinary bike at double that is starting into reliable ground, and at three times upwards very good to premium. Beyond four to five times , the money is going into specialist components, increased weight loss and very low friction wheels.

Elect bikes will cost 3 times an equivalent ordinary bike.
Cheap bikes are ok for casual use , summer homes etc , not to be looked down at ...

 

[Crockers]

As a kid my parents always bought me cheap bikes for Christmas and they were used robustly every day and rarely had problems other than punctures. So I don't understand the logic of cheap bikes being unreliable. Perhaps my childhood bikes were built in Britain before the shift to China and had to meet certain British Standards.

Maybe if they bought you an expensive one they wouldn't have had to buy you one every Christmas..

 

[topographer]

Maybe if they bought you an expensive one they wouldn't have had to buy you one every Christmas..

They didn't. I only had three bikes my entire childhood.

 

[Danidl]

They didn't. I only had three bikes my entire childhood.

... The older bikes were made with steel, heavy, robust, and unless coated in chrome, or paint, would rust.protected they would last forever. Likewise the crank and cogs were steel and used a cotters pin to hold the cranks in place. If it became loose a couple of belts with a hammer and you were right as rain.

As evidence of the durability,, I once visited a village in France .. which had been destroyed by the SS as a reprisal in 1944, and the most striking thing visually was the number of bicycle frames and rusting sewing machines still noticeable in the rubble of the houses . The collection of spectacles in the ruined church was also chilling.

Modern bikes trying to be lighter replaced multiple parts with alloys of aluminium, and cotterless cranks became the norm. These would inevitably wear and loosen ... I ended up aralditeing it in place .. still successful after decades!.
Your bikes from your childhood probably cost a weeks wages , and would be rated as moderately expensive now.

 

[topographer]

Your bikes from your childhood probably cost a weeks wages , and would be rated as moderately expensive now.

I did wonder if standards had just slipped a bit.