Ching Challenge

frank9755

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 19, 2007
1,228
2
London
Just thought I'd post a few words on the Ching Challenge, which several of us enjoyed doing yesterday. I'm sure others will add more details and pictures soon but here are some short highlights.

Glorious weather in Exmoor - bright sunshine all day.

Eight of us set off on the challenge and I'm afraid none of us managed the 100 miles. Largely this was because the route cunningly planned by Nick 'Tiberius' was so fiendishly hilly that we ran out of time and energy to do it all.

Unfortunately David from Wisper was taken ill so couldn't make it. Hope you are feeling better, David, and I'm sure that the rumours that it was a tactical move because you felt it was too hilly for a Wisper were unfounded!

Five of us managed about 85 miles, one had to cut short in the afternoon, largely, I think, because of brakes overheating on the descent of Porlock Hill (at 1 in 4, or 25%, the steepest hill I have ever seen) and a couple of others had only planned to do the morning.

The most startling figure for me was our total ascent, which was measured by GPS as being over 13,000 feet - ie the equivalent of almost half way up Mount Everest! It really was an extremely hilly ride, involving three full descents from the top of Exmoor to the bottom and back up again + smaller hills, and one that only an extremely fit cyclist could contemplate without electric assistance.

The bikes were all Ezees (most of the people) or Tongxins (me plus a second Nick who had a Cytronex). I was very impressed by the way the Ezees performed - they got up the 3 or 4 of the 20%/1 in 5 hills that Nick directed us up with only the occasional rest stop. The two of us with Tongxins were probably the most regular non-electric cyclists and our motors couldn't keep up with the Ezees on the hills - they needed more help from us. Also we had to pedal more as we had fewer batteries. I only used limited assistance to make sure my two 10Ah Ping batteries lasted the day (which they did with the help of a 1 hour top up charge over lunch). It was clear that the Ping LiFePO4 gave better performance than the Cytronex battery, which - as is normal for an NiMH - had a tailing off of performance as it ran down. For most rides this would be ok but on such a hilly course I was glad of the full assistance right through the discharge cycle.

I was extremely pleased with my kit bike, Tongxin motor, eCrazyman controller and Ping batteries. I had no cut-outs, overheating, or other significant problems (other than one or two bolts working loose on the long ride with many cattle grids!). I had the advantage of low gearing which meant I could spin up the hills to assist the motor. With my limited battery capacity (<24Ah) I probably could not have managed the ride on a production eBike which did not have a triple chainring.

Big thanks to Nick for organising, and for the others for helping to make it a very enjoyable day. Probably the toughest days cycling I can remember - electric power or no - and also one of the most enjoyable! Also thanks to the people who followed the route (a lurker on this site who knows far too much about electric bikes not to be posting!) and took pictures of us. For those of you who missed the afternoon - the morning was a piece of cake compared to the pull back up from Porlock on the coast to the very top of Exmoor!

Frank
 

AndyOfTheSouth

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2009
347
4
Hi Frank - great post. I'd already put a brief note on the other thread which I'll repost here:

Thanks to everyone on the ride for your cheery companionship.

The scenery was fantastic, with perfect weather.

Great organising, Nick. Great moral and photographic support from the 4x4 team - very sorry, don't have your names, but your presence was much appreciated.

Thanks to Pete of Onbike for the loan of the Ezee Forza, which was excellent on the very hilly route.

Now, when are we going to start boring people with our pictures?!?

All the best

Andy
 

Tiberius

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 9, 2007
919
1
Somerset
Well, thanks to all you guys for coming and yes, sorry about the hills, maybe I did overdo that bit.

Before we started, I'd thought there were two choices of strategy. One is to ride carefully and conserve battery energy. The other is to go hell for leather and spend a little time recharging at the half way point. No prizes for guessing which one I chose, and I'd spent the Monday building a high current charging system.

The 50 mile ride in the morning was just lovely, and I think we were lulled into a false sense of security by it. The route worked out wonderfully, I just enjoyed myself so much, the hills were challenging but manageable, the weather lovely, the scenery dramatic, beautiful girls threw flowers at us. I even had a pleasant break chatting to some non-electric bikers I met.

Even with that, I did the first 50 miles in 3 hrs 20 mins, and came in under budget on the electricity. I hooked up the chargers, ordered lunch and waited for the others.

The morning set up the wrong expectations for the afternoon 50 mile loop, and we all spent longer over lunch than we should have done. What I hadn't realised was that a couple of the afternoon hills were just over the limit and that screwed up the time calculations. One thing that in retrospect I did do right was to make the route a clover leaf shape, so that there were simple options to cut it down to 1/3 or 2/3. But the views, the views, was that first leg into Porlock good, or was it good?

3 of us had Cycle Analysts and here are the numbers from them:

Andy Grayland (On Bike) eZee Torq Mk2
83.3 miles
37.2 Ah
16.2 Wh/mile
14.1 mph average (all day)
30.8 mph max

Phil Key (On Bike) eZee Forza
84.0 miles
44.0 Ah
18.6 Wh/mile
14.7 mph average (morning)
43.3 mph max

Nick Long, eZee Torq Mk2.x
89.7 miles
47.1 Ah
20.0 Wh/mile
16.8 mph average
49.2 mph max

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PS. Its probably worth a comment on the average speeds. The CA's work it out based on the time actually moving, so they take out the stops and its not an average over the elapsed time.
Also in case anyone is wondering how this can give an average of more than 15 mph when there is a 15 mph max speed, here's how it works:
The 15 mph is not the max speed of the bike; its the max speed of the electric assistance.
Suppose you travel uphill for 12 miles with electric assist at 12 mph. That takes 1 hour.
Then you roll downhill for 12 miles at 24 mph. That takes 30 mins.
So you have covered 24 miles in 1.5 hours, which is 16 mph average.
 
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frank9755

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 19, 2007
1,228
2
London
Nick,

The views from above Porlock, from where we could see what felt like half of Wales, were fantastic!

The cycle analyst data was also interesting, and I had updates from Phil and Andy (we cycled round in a group together) on how many Ah they had used at various points round the course.

As a comparison my stats - using a third strategy of taking fewer batteries but pedalling more, and estimating my consumption at 22Ah - would be something like this:

84 miles
22 Ah
9.3 Wh/mile
14 mph average (Phil and Andy probably waited for me slightly more than vice versa, but my wider gear range meant I was generally faster on the long, slow descents)
c.40 mph max (my cheap computer zeroed at speeds above 38.3mph!
 

AndyOfTheSouth

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2009
347
4
Interesting, stuff, Frank and Nick - thanks. Do you happen to know the total vertical distance travelled during the first 50 miles?
 

Tiberius

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 9, 2007
919
1
Somerset
Wow Frank, 9.3 Wh/mile. Makes my use of electricity look profligate. You must have been doing some hard work yourself.

Here's the weighing data from the records.

All the eZee bikes stuffed with extra batteries weighed in at 40.0 kg.
The other two were:
Frank9755: Homebuilt with Tongxin motor - 34 kg
Nick (The mutiny) Cytronex Synapse with 4 Ah NiMH - 17.1 kg
 

Tiberius

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 9, 2007
919
1
Somerset
The views from above Porlock, from where we could see what felt like half of Wales, were fantastic!
Did you see the way the map describes one bit of coast on the route as Bristol Channel and the other bit as Atlantic Ocean?

Nick
 

fcurran

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 23, 2007
394
0
Bath
www.powabyke.com
50mph

Nick, I bet you are disappointed not to break that 50mph top speed mile stone!! ;)
 

frank9755

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 19, 2007
1,228
2
London
I bet he was!

The funny thing is that Nick had all these batteries so we assumed that he would be using them to go at high speed up the hills. We actually saw him pushing his bike up a hill and so his average speed seemed to be higher because he had a more relaxed attitude to braking when going downhill than the rest of us!
 

Tiberius

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 9, 2007
919
1
Somerset
Nick, I bet you are disappointed not to break that 50mph top speed mile stone!! ;)
Hi Frank,

Yes, but I didn't know I was that close until afterwards. I'd only been watching it live up to 43 mph, then I thought watching the road might be better.

I went past 30 limits many times on downhill sections. I was trying for a 40 limit once with an aero tuck and I got up to 39 mph before it changed to a 30.

Nick

(I refer readers to the 1984 Road Traffic Regulation Act which states that speed limits apply to motor vehicles.)
 
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Tiberius

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 9, 2007
919
1
Somerset
...relaxed attitude to braking when going downhill than the rest of us!
Braking is a waste of energy, that's just physics. But braking downhill is a waste of free energy, and that's criminal.

Nick

PS. Before we get into another debate. I was wearing a hard shell helmet, and knee pads and elbow pads.
 
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Conal

Pedelecer
Sep 28, 2007
228
2
Hilly route

I travelled about 70 miles, finishing the morning route and completed one part of the afternoon route. The hills were killers in the afteroon.

My problems started coming in 15 minutes after the others in the morning. I think I pushed too hard at first in the morning and ran out of leg power before lunch. In the afternoon, coming down Porlock Hill, I am sure that I exceeded 50 mph - I passed two cars half way. As usual I waited until the last minute to brake and after a strong smell of burning rubber and significant front wheel judder I managed the second tight bend without landing in the bank. Straight after this I had no back brake (disc) and a regular clicking noise from my front wheel that only stopped when I used my front brake. After the worst (best?) climb I have ever experienced about 12 miles into the afternoon I was onto my fourth and last battery which was constant on yellow by the top of the climb. With these problem and having no intention of being caught out with no power assist I headed for home after the first loop cutting the afternoon ride down to about 20 miles.

Although I cannot say I enjoyed pushing my bike up part of the steepest hill I have ever seen outside Snowdonia it was certainly a challenge and, as has been stated by others, the views of the English and Welsh coastline were spectacular.

The day was well organised as expected; great meal onTuesday and very good company. The landord was accomodating - we had our own stable which we shared with the boiler, and plenty of sockets (thanks to Nick's foresight) for a burst of recharge at lunch time.

The maps, again provided by Nick, were great - really simple, and there was very little traffic to spoil the ride.

Hope it is on again next year, and that more people take part with different bikes. Frank proved that eZees are not the only bikes (and cyclists) that can handle the hills. Andyofthesouth was unlucky in having two punctures preventing his completion as he set off late due to a loose magnet and still caught everybode but Nick up within 32 miles.

Thanks again Nick

PS. And thanks also to the very kind gentleman and his wife who kept us informed throughout the day and took photos to prove we reached the various key points. I would like to see these as there are group photos and some with scenic backdrops.
 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,228
2,194
68
Sevenoaks Kent
Good day

It sounded great, I am so sorry I wasn't there.

I have been back in hospital again today for another nebuliser, I think the time has come to get fit enough for next years challenge.

My doctor said today "Death is natures way of telling you to get fit"! :eek:

Well done to you all.

See you next year.

I hope!

Regards David
 

Tiberius

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 9, 2007
919
1
Somerset
Hi David,

Sorry about your troubles. It would have been great to have you and some Wispers there.

I've been on a nebuliser myself. I used to suffer quite badly from asthma, but it got better as I got older. I don't recommend that as the solution, though, getting fit is a better policy. For me the trigger was finding the kids could climb trees faster than I could.

Nick
 

AndyOfTheSouth

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2009
347
4
Hi Conal - it was Nick-of-the-Tongxin-who-wasn't-Frank-of-the-Tongxin who had the punctures (that's what happens if you have a bike with those funny skinny tyres :eek: )

I was the scruffy bloke using the Forza kindly lent by Pete of Onbike - it is disconcertingly easy to slip into this form of identification by the way.

Andy

PS Best wishes, David (or rather, David of Wisper). Yes, definitely do get fit for next year - or indeed before then. :)
 
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frank9755

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 19, 2007
1,228
2
London
Conal's post illustrates a good point - that this ride really pushed e-bikes to their limits so it was good to see what they could achieve.

The main group of us stopped half way down Porlock Hill to let our brakes cool, and they were red hot - both rims and discs. When we stopped half way back up, my controller was warm and those on the Ezee bikes (which were pulling probably twice the current as mine) were hot.

The landord was accomodating - we had our own stable which we shared with the boiler
And that was just for the bikes - we had bedrooms too!
 

themutiny

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 26, 2009
354
0
I would echo everyone's sentiments about a great day. well done and thanks to Nick
It did not go well for me, and I only managed a miserly 42 miles, and that on the easy leg. I have been having a lot of puncture issues and as a foot note, my wife rode her Cytronex with a normal wheel and no battery (cos I had it) in the morning about 20 miles on main roads. When we got home and I got the bikes out of the car, she also had a puncture. I wouldn't mind, but these were the 3rd set of tyres I had tried, and these were supposed to afford protection!

I have just spent an enjoyable (sic) 90 minutes fitting a fourth set to both bikes. These are Armadillos, and if the reviews are to be believed will be the answer to my prayers. Fingers crossed. I'm miffed about missing Porlock hill. So much so that I'm going back there tomorrow (well, that and the fact I loved the place) with an Ezee and a Cytronex.

For what it's worth (and I accept it's questionable) I reckon I used 210 w hrs, which gives me a figure of 5 per mile.

It wasn't all bad. I walked back into North Molton, and my wife got badly lost picking me up, which afforded me the opportunity to spend an hour or so in a very pleasant pub with very friendly locals. We then went for a drive and a walk across Exmoor before heading home. Roll on next year!

Here's a short video

YouTube - Ching challenge weigh in

Regards,

Nick
 

frank9755

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 19, 2007
1,228
2
London
Nick,

Glad you had a good day in the end. It was a shame to loose you to the evil puncture fairy and have to compete with all the Ezees on my own! You will enjoy Porlock Hill... You would have got up the other side the quickest with your lighter bike and decent low gears - as we were all down to 5mph.

Nice little video clip - I hadn't realised that you were filming. I have ordered one of those mini video cameras that you can fix to handlebars, but the thing has taken ages to come in the post and still not here. I had hoped to have had it for Wednesday but alas not.

For what it's worth (and I accept it's questionable) I reckon I used 210 w hrs, which gives me a figure of 5 per mile.
Pretty good, but for a true measurement you would have to have included the uphill bits too! :)
 
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themutiny

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 26, 2009
354
0
Pretty good, but for a true measurement you would have to have included the uphill bits too! :)
True Frank, but I also struggled for 10 miles with a slow puncture with < 40 psi instead of 120 in the front tyre, and I lost c.15 mins at the start.

;)
 

Conal

Pedelecer
Sep 28, 2007
228
2
Nick not Andy

Andy

Yes, I realised that - should have edited! It was themutiny as he has reported.

God knows what I will do if more people take part - make everybody wear two name badges, one with their forum name and the other with their real name!

Conal