Conversion kit for Dahon Speed/Vitesse

homemoz

Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2007
178
156
UK
I bought a Dahon conversion from CH White & Son four years ago which has been faultless apart from the NIMH battery which needed replacing a while ago. Found that I really like the 20" Dahons & am thinking of doing a conversion. The idea is to buy a used or new Dahon Speed/Vitesse and fit a conversion kit myself. Thinking that I would get my NIMH battery re-celled (£134.00) and use with my existing bike - the other LifePo4 10amp can go the rack on the new bike. So... what I am looking for is a 24v kit without battery suitable for a 20" folding bike from the UK if possible. The aim is to keep costs down to around £700-£800 max including cost of bike.

The kit must be relatively straight forward to fit as I'm not known for being mechanically minded. I would also prefer a pedelec function as the bike would be used by my wife who dislikes the throttle on my present Dahon. I don't really want to buy an off the shelf electric folder. I have trawled the internet but can only find 36v kits with battery which I don't want. Eclipse do a crank system (looks like the Cyclone one) which maybe could work - but comes with twist grip or thumb throttle & no pedelec as far as I can see. Even so, I maybe would maybe consider this - does anyone have experience of these?

Any suggestions welcome. I can't believe this is an impossible ask but who knows....
 

homemoz

Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2007
178
156
UK
Thanks d8veh. Looks like it could do the job - do you have any experience of these kits & is there any import duty? Just a couple of thoughts - does the pedelec work without using the thumb throttle & couldn't see whether there is a connector for the hub motor without going all the way back to the controller. Something like the Powabyke where the throttle governs power in pedelec mode wouldn't be what I want. Pedelec nees to be independent of throttle.
 
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Deleted member 4366

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Thanks d8veh. Looks like it could do the job - do you have any experience of these kits & is there any import duty? Just a couple of thoughts - does the pedelec work without using the thumb throttle & couldn't see whether there is a connector for the hub motor without going all the way back to the controller. Something like the Powabyke where the throttle governs power in pedelec mode wouldn't be what I want. Pedelec nees to be independent of throttle.
I have lots of experience with these kits about 8 so far, but I haven't used one of their batteries yet, though I have one in transit. They take between 2 and 6 weeks to arrive. I had to pay duty once, but it wasn't very much (about £11) because the seller under-values the stuff on the paperwork. Pedelec works independently of throttle, Throttle works independently of pedelec and will over-ride pedelec when opened. There is a waterproof connector close to the motor.
 

homemoz

Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2007
178
156
UK
I have lots of experience with these kits about 8 so far, but I haven't used one of their batteries yet, though I have one in transit. They take between 2 and 6 weeks to arrive. I had to pay duty once, but it wasn't very much (about £11) because the seller under-values the stuff on the paperwork. Pedelec works independently of throttle, Throttle works independently of pedelec and will over-ride pedelec when opened. There is a waterproof connector close to the motor.
Thanks that sounds exactly what we want. CH White look to have a Speed in the custom bikes section for £299.00. If that's right could have a quality bike under £500.00.
 

jhruk

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 13, 2009
316
68
I’ve fitted the 36v version of this kit to a 20" Dahon Impulse & so far I’m very impressed with it - see my previous post.

The 24v version is likely to be rather less powerful as I believe both the controllers are set to limit the current to about 14amps. Given the gauge of the supplied wiring I’d be wary of increasing this.

They appear to offer this motor in two widths for forks of 83mm or 100mm. If you’re going to fit it to a 20” Dahon you’ll probably need the 83mm width - but check first. The link d8veh gave was for the 100mm version - the 83mm is here.
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,277
108
Cambridge, UK
Interesting. This must be one of the only manufactures, in addition to Tongxin, that produce the narrower width motors.

Am I right in thinking this is a Cute motor ?

How noisey/free wheeling is this motor ?

Regards

Jerry
 

homemoz

Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2007
178
156
UK
I’ve fitted the 36v version of this kit to a 20" Dahon Impulse & so far I’m very impressed with it - see my previous post.

The 24v version is likely to be rather less powerful as I believe both the controllers are set to limit the current to about 14amps. Given the gauge of the supplied wiring I’d be wary of increasing this.

They appear to offer this motor in two widths for forks of 83mm or 100mm. If you’re going to fit it to a 20” Dahon you’ll probably need the 83mm width - but check first. The link d8veh gave was for the 100mm version - the 83mm is here.
That's really helpful. Do you have any pictures of the bike that you could post?
 
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Deleted member 4366

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Interesting. This must be one of the only manufactures, in addition to Tongxin, that produce the narrower width motors.

Am I right in thinking this is a Cute motor ?

How noisey/free wheeling is this motor ?

Regards

Jerry
It is a Cute motor. I took one apart and found that the free-wheel (roller clutch) disconnects the whole motor and gears from the hub. Therefore there can be no drag or noise from the motor when free-wheeling. In the 1st photo, the freewheel is between the ring geared part and the aluminium plate - shown in detail in the 2nd photo.

 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,277
108
Cambridge, UK
Excellent pictures d8veh very helpfull, thanks for posting.

So noise wise, whilst under power, what are these like and do you have a video of one running ?

Regards

Jerry
 
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Deleted member 4366

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I haven't run one yet. I got a couple for my next project. From the ES forum, it appears that there's two versions of these motors. In principle both are the same, but the new versions have a slightly different gear arrangement. Mine are recently ordered fom BMSbattery but they're the supposedly better older version. On the ES forum they report that they work very well even when over-powered, but not as strong as a Bafang when rediculously overpowered.
 

jhruk

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 13, 2009
316
68
That's really helpful. Do you have any pictures of the bike that you could post?
I did put a couple of photos on my post here - I'll try & post a few more when I can.

Looking back I see I referred to the gearing on the Impulse as Sachs when I should have been more specific & said SRAM Dual Drive.
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,277
108
Cambridge, UK
Thanks jhruk very helpful.

It certainly looks like a valid alternative to the harder to source Tongxins.

The only thing I was unsure about is the RPM. Is it really a 328 RPM motor ?

The one from Tongxin is 260 RPM.

Regards

Jerry
 
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Deleted member 4366

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jerrysimon;120469 The only thing I was unsure about is the RPM. Is it really a 328 RPM motor ? The one from Tongxin is 260 RPM. [/QUOTE said:
BMSbattery sell the 250w Cutes in 2 versions: 201 rpm for bigger wheels and 328 rpm for smaller ones.
 

jhruk

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 13, 2009
316
68
Thanks jhruk very helpful.

It certainly looks like a valid alternative to the harder to source Tongxins.

The only thing I was unsure about is the RPM. Is it really a 328 RPM motor ?

The one from Tongxin is 260 RPM.

Regards

Jerry
Well it says 328 rpm on the label..! Unloaded my speedo shows 21mph with 39-40v from the Ping, which on a 20” wheel would indicate that’s about right.

The 36v version I have will wind the Dahon up to around 18mph, calm day, on the flat, unassisted. It certainly feels more powerful than I was expecting from a motor of this size and seems to suit the bike well.

I haven’t owned a Tongxin but I have tried them on various bikes. Its main attraction seemed to be its silence and on this the Q85 can’t compete. It’s difficult to describe something as subjective as noise, but, to me, the Q85 sounds no noisier but higher pitched compared to other geared hub motors. I’ll have a go at doing a video for you but may need some time.

Had the Tongxin been more readily available, at the right price, I would almost certainly have bought one but I’m now rather pleased I tried the Cute. They are of similar size & weight so it probably comes down to noise v power.
 

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kitchenman

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 9, 2010
1,309
7
Aberaeron, West Wales
Had the Tongxin been more readily available, at the right price, I would almost certainly have bought one but I’m now rather pleased I tried the Cute. They are of similar size & weight so it probably comes down to noise v power.
One of things I am hoping to do now that I have converted to a stokemonkey setup is to try different 36v motors. I will certainly add the Cute to my list. The Tongxin I am currently testing is 175 rpm.
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,277
108
Cambridge, UK
Yes it certainly sounds more powerfull than the Tongxin 260RPM motor. On my Brompton the Tongxin takes me up to around a rather relaxed and comfortable 14mph unassisted on the flat.

That said on my latest rather unusual 20" project (I will post details soon) the Tongxin 260RPM motor takes me up to a very zippy and less relaxed 16-17mph.

At 18mph the Cute 328RPM sounds like it makes 20" wheeled bike fly!

Its strange how much difference/scary adrenaline pumping fear, assistance to 16/17 mph can provide compared to 14mph :eek:

All that said I am not really comfortable using an ebike with assistance of more than 15mph in my city commute which seems about the right speed saftey wise for the various pedestrians I encounter.

Regards

Jerry
 
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homemoz

Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2007
178
156
UK
I did put a couple of photos on my post here - I'll try & post a few more when I can.

Looking back I see I referred to the gearing on the Impulse as Sachs when I should have been more specific & said SRAM Dual Drive.
The conversion looks very neat. I was going to ask about speed but you have answered my question. Especially like the thought about not having to widen the forks. I have looked at new conversions from CH White but it's the price that puts me off especially when I have a good battery and charger lying around that could be used. There is a Dahon Speed on the CH White site at £299 which seems very reasonable to me. Will give it thought this week & then decide.
 

jhruk

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 13, 2009
316
68
A few more photos and a video as requested.

The ‘black box’ behind the seat tube is from Maplin & contains all the connectors, excess wiring & a couple of switches. The ‘chicken wire’ holding the controller was intended as a temporary measure - but it works & I’ll probably leave it. Just need a neater bag for the battery now.

For those concerned about excessive speed the controller does have the usual pair of ‘connect to engage’ speed limiter connectors. Unfortunately, as supplied, it’s rather too aggressive & limits the assisted speed to a tedious 10mph. I believe this can be altered by the change of one resistor value but would require a bit of experimentation - or perhaps fitting a variable one. It’s also rather crude and limits the power of the motor at all speeds - so reducing hill climbing ability. It’s just like putting a limit on the travel of the throttle.

There’s also a pair of ‘Cruise Control’ connectors but I haven’t tried this feature yet.

Although I enjoy the power of the Cute I do appreciate the silence of the Tongxin and might still be tempted if one was available for a similar price. I could then just swap the front wheel according to mood..! Anyone have one for sale..?

IMG_36784-1.jpg IMG_36782-1.jpgIMG_36758-2.jpg IMG_36791-1.jpg
 

TwoBikes

Pedelecer
Mar 23, 2011
55
0
Thanks for these photos and video jhruk. I have just fitted a Q85 to an old Triumph 20, so recognise all you say about these motors. I bought the motor separately and had it built into a wheel with a new rim sourced from elsewhere. I now think this was probably a waste of my money! When ordering a complete wheel, did you specify an exact rim size (e.g. 451), or did you just ask for a 20" and take whatever they sent?

Regarding the speed limiter, I connected it up not knowing what it was and thought there was something wrong with the motor! Hopelessly underpowered. When I disconnected it all was well of course. I also had the cruise control connected for a while. This locks the motor on after holding the throttle open for about 8 seconds. You cancel it by flicking the throttle (or, I assume, by applying the ebrakes - but I haven't fitted the switches on mine). I don't really like these cruise controls.

Interesting that you get a waterproof quick-connector with the complete kit - if you buy just the motor you get a long lead that goes all the way back to the controller.

I'm still intrigued by reports that shipments can take weeks to arrive from BMSBattery - the only shipping options I am ever offered take only days, but are very expensive.
 

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