Cyclamatic powerplus controller fault ?

[nickthestick]

Hi, new to this group as need some assistance with getting this bike working again.
Bike bought secondhand last year, think its probably 5-6 years old little use, in good condition but think its had a battery overall / replacement. Was working ok last year although had the odd unexpected "cut out". I put this down to a possible battery connection but did raise my suspicions that something may not be right. Got it out this year and not working.
The battery is fully charged and LED power levels on hand throttle are working and show full as well.
I took everything apart (even the motor) to check for loose connections but found nothing (couldn't work out how to open up throttle control without damaging it so not sure what's going on in there). Clean everything and sprayed with contact cleaner.
Put it all back together and to my amazement it worked !
Whilst I had all tools out got brave and cleaned out noisy bottom bracket and clean out loads of grit. Felt well pleased with myself, but when tried it again now not working !
Battery ok, LEDs to throttle showing power but still not working !
I have a wiring diagrams and happy to test all the electrics with voltmeter ( its not digital). Could get hold of a bike test meter but not sure if they are reliable and will have to get from China which could take some time.
What is the correct order to test stuff ? Controller, Motor, Brakes, Throttle, Pedal Sensor. Seems shame to get rid of bike before looking at all possible options.
Many thanks for any help and sorry for the long post.

 

[Nealh]

If it worked after cleaning then controller will be fine, the issue is likely a contact fault.
First disconnect any brake sensors and then try throttle and PAS.

If still not working, next confirm the actual battery voltage with a proper reading .
Motor wire connector is next port of call trace it to the connection (might be along the rear stay), if so double check it is pushed fully home. The connector motor side has a etched raised line make sure the other part is pushed tight to it.

Check that battery voltage is being seen on the controller to battery wires at the connections.

 

[vfr400]

If the battery were faulty, the lights on the throttle would go down when it cuts out. If they all stay on, it's something else, like a connection fault. electronics either works or not. if it's intermittent, it's almost certainly a bad connection or damaged motor cable, though can also be a faulty brake switch, especially if there's too much slack in the cable. disconnect the brakes (electrically) until you have it running properly. Pay special attention to where the cable comes out of the axle. Later Cyclamatics have a motor connector under the right hand chainstay. Make sure that it's all the way in.

One more thing, especially as you worked on the BB. did you put the magnet disc back right. the gap needs to be about 1mm and it needs to be the right way up otherwise it works backwards.

Throttles rarely give problems, so no need to dismantle. If you want to test it, check that you have 5v between red and black on the controller's connector, then measure between green (yellow on other side of connector) and black, you should see it resting at 1.2v, then go up to 3.8v when you twist the throttle.

If none of those things fix it, then you have to go all through the basic tests:

1. Measure the voltage at controller's battery connector. Obviously should be battery voltage. 36v - 42v for a 36v battery would be an acceptable range.
2. Measure the voltage on the 5v rail. You can measure that between any ground (black) and any of the reds going to throttle, PAS or motor halls. It should be around 5v.
3. Check throttle signal wire, which is the one that's not red or black. Should give about 1v to 4v when you twist the throttle. If there's more than one wire, your meter will find it. It's the one that's between 1v and 4v, assuming that it works.
4. Check that the PAS is pulsing. Measure the PAS signal wire while turning the pedals slowly. Should pulse 5v on and off every time a magnet passes the sensor. the signal wire is the one that's not red or black.
5. Check the motor hall signal wires (blue green and yellow) on the connector at the controller. They should each pulse with 5v going on and off as you rotate the wheel BACKWARDS.

6. Mosfet test. Disconnect the motor cable and battery from the controller. measure the resistance (200k scale) between the red battery connection and each of the three phase wire connections, then repeat with the black battert wire. eack set of 3 readings should be the same as each other and in the range 7K -22K. Though can be higher as long as they're all the same. Due to the capacitor across the battery wire, you can get a constantantly changing measurement while it charges. In that case, try swapping your probes round. Even though can be a moving result, the only important thing is that all three move in a similar way.

If your bike passes all those tests, it should work, so then you can look at any settings or other logical causes, like stuck brake switches, PAS installed backwards.

When checking whether the motor will work, always disconnect all unessential connectors, like PAS (if you have a throttle). lights and brakes.

 

[nickthestick]

If it worked after cleaning then controller will be fine, the issue is likely a contact fault.
First disconnect any brake sensors and then try throttle and PAS.

If still not working, next confirm the actual battery voltage with a proper reading .
Motor wire connector is next port of call trace it to the connection (might be along the rear stay), if so double check it is pushed fully home. The connector motor side has a etched raised line make sure the other part is pushed tight to it.

Check that battery voltage is being seen on the controller to battery wires at the connections.

Thank you so much for spending time writing this up for me. I’ll have another look at it all and let you know how I get on. Many thanks.

 

[nickthestick]

If the battery were faulty, the lights on the throttle would go down when it cuts out. If they all stay on, it's something else, like a connection fault. electronics either works or not. if it's intermittent, it's almost certainly a bad connection or damaged motor cable, though can also be a faulty brake switch, especially if there's too much slack in the cable. disconnect the brakes (electrically) until you have it running properly. Pay special attention to where the cable comes out of the axle. Later Cyclamatics have a motor connector under the right hand chainstay. Make sure that it's all the way in.

One more thing, especially as you worked on the BB. did you put the magnet disc back right. the gap needs to be about 1mm and it needs to be the right way up otherwise it works backwards.

Throttles rarely give problems, so no need to dismantle. If you want to test it, check that you have 5v between red and black on the controller's connector, then measure between green (yellow on other side of connector) and black, you should see it resting at 1.2v, then go up to 3.8v when you twist the throttle.

If none of those things fix it, then you have to go all through the basic tests:

1. Measure the voltage at controller's battery connector. Obviously should be battery voltage. 36v - 42v for a 36v battery would be an acceptable range.
2. Measure the voltage on the 5v rail. You can measure that between any ground (black) and any of the reds going to throttle, PAS or motor halls. It should be around 5v.
3. Check throttle signal wire, which is the one that's not red or black. Should give about 1v to 4v when you twist the throttle. If there's more than one wire, your meter will find it. It's the one that's between 1v and 4v, assuming that it works.
4. Check that the PAS is pulsing. Measure the PAS signal wire while turning the pedals slowly. Should pulse 5v on and off every time a magnet passes the sensor. the signal wire is the one that's not red or black.
5. Check the motor hall signal wires (blue green and yellow) on the connector at the controller. They should each pulse with 5v going on and off as you rotate the wheel BACKWARDS.

6. Mosfet test. Disconnect the motor cable and battery from the controller. measure the resistance (200k scale) between the red battery connection and each of the three phase wire connections, then repeat with the black battert wire. eack set of 3 readings should be the same as each other and in the range 7K -22K. Though can be higher as long as they're all the same. Due to the capacitor across the battery wire, you can get a constantantly changing measurement while it charges. In that case, try swapping your probes round. Even though can be a moving result, the only important thing is that all three move in a similar way.

If your bike passes all those tests, it should work, so then you can look at any settings or other logical causes, like stuck brake switches, PAS installed backwards.

When checking whether the motor will work, always disconnect all unessential connectors, like PAS (if you have a throttle). lights and brakes.

Many thanks fir detailing all this, plenty to keep me going. Is there a safe way of opening up the throttle housing. There seems to be some play in the electrical cable. Worried I will break the plastic housing. Tried prising it apart with small screwdriver but not opening.
Many thanks for your help.

 

[vfr400]

Many thanks fir detailing all this, plenty to keep me going. Is there a safe way of opening up the throttle housing. There seems to be some play in the electrical cable. Worried I will break the plastic housing. Tried prising it apart with small screwdriver but not opening.
Many thanks for your help.

You don't need to open up the throttle. You check it's function by electrical measurement. They're very difficult to open and there's a good chance to break something. You should only do that if it fails the elctrical test and you have some dort of affection for that particular one.

What ever your problem is, it will reveal itself if you do simple logical tests, otherwise all you do is waste your own and everybody else's time. The Cyclamatic is one of the easiest bikes to test.

One last thing. I take it you know how the red button on the throttle works?

 

[nickthestick]

Thanks for all your help.
Ive finally got round to looking more in depth at the problem and identified the issue as a faulty switch on the throttle control. Against your advise I did take the throttle controller apart, my intention was to fit a different switch unfortunatly in the process I've broken a wire to the hall sensor.
Can you give me advise on best place to get a replacement sensor or should I be looking at getting a new complete throttle assembly.
Seen the same bike on eBay with defective battery. I could get it, switch batteries and have it as a spare for parts, but seems bit extreme.
Few pounds for a sensor, tens for a control and hundred plus for second hand bike !
My wife likes the throttle control so trying to replace it somehow.
Look forward to any advise
Nick

 

[vfr400]

You won't be able to buy a throttle the same as the Cyclamatic one unless you get it from Sports Direct, which will be expensive. You can buy ones that look identival and have the same hardware, but the Cyclamativ one has unique wiring inside the throttle, where the red button is used to switch off the pedal assist.. The non-Cyclamatic ones have the two wires for the switch separate, but there's nothing stopping you from wiring them to the 5v supply externally instead of internally.

You can use any throttle and any switch you want. You don't need to have it the same as original. All throttles will work. The sensor inside is Honeywell SS49 hall sensor, which costs pence.

 

[nickthestick]

vfr400
Many thanks for your prompt reply, most grateful. Ive ordered a hall sensor. I will wire this up to a more robust rocker switch. Can get hold of a throttle control for £29 if I mess this up !
I'll let you know how I get on.
Thanks agin for your help
Nick

 

[vfr400]

To explain the wiring, the 5v for the throttle and PAS leaves the controller in a red wire. It goes to the throttle to power the sensor, then back to the pedal sensor via a white (?) wire. I can't remember whether the switch is before the throttle or afterwards. It makes no difference. You can have it how you want to switch off both pedal sensor and throttle, only the throttle or only the pedal sensor, dependinhg how you route the 5v wire.

 

[nickthestick]

To explain the wiring, the 5v for the throttle and PAS leaves the controller in a red wire. It goes to the throttle to power the sensor, then back to the pedal sensor via a white (?) wire. I can't remember whether the switch is before the throttle or afterwards. It makes no difference. You can have it how you want to switch off both pedal sensor and throttle, only the throttle or only the pedal sensor, dependinhg how you route the 5v wire.

 

[nickthestick]

Many thanks for this information and all your help.

 

[Tony1951]

Post #3 has an outstanding fault finding section from VFR400. I have copied it to a file on my phone.

 

[nickthestick]

Many thanks fir all your help guys. Managed to fit a new rocker switch outside throttle control. Replaced hall sensor that I had broken. Nightmare getting wiring all back in, damaged another two hall sensors in the process ! All working now. Need to get myself a big magnifying glass, those sensors are so small. Thanks guys.

 

[vfr400]

Many thanks fir all your help guys. Managed to fit a new rocker switch outside throttle control. Replaced hall sensor that I had broken. Nightmare getting wiring all back in, damaged another two hall sensors in the process ! All working now. Need to get myself a big magnifying glass, those sensors are so small. Thanks guys.

My experience is that if you buy genuine Honeywell sensors or other genuine branded devices, like mosfets, the legs are flexible and easy to deal with, but the cheaper knock-offs have very brittle legs that break when you bend them more than once., though probably worth putting up with that for the speed and convenience of supply from Ebay.