Cyclist Arrest

Django

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 11, 2007
453
1
Now if it had been an electric bike, and if that electric bike had been 'derestricted' . . . .

BBC Link
 

alex_h

Pedelecer
Dec 28, 2009
197
4
then the industry would be in the BIG ****, i really feel sorry for the woman and her family:(
 

rog_london

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 3, 2009
764
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Harrow, Middlesex
Now if it had been an electric bike, and if that electric bike had been 'derestricted' . . . .

BBC Link
I suppose one mustn't lose sight of the odds against an e-bike being involved.

How many non-powered bikes are there around per e-bike?

I suspect it's been reported because the many road accidents involving cyclists often result in the serious injury or the death of the cyclist rather than someone else, and that wouldn't be newsworthy.

That reminds me - I must buy a lottery ticket - not.....

Rog.
 

Stumpi

Pedelecer
Dec 3, 2009
192
40
Scotland
Very sad but happens all the time with cars. I can't remember the last time, if ever, it happened with a cyclist.

Be interesting to see what happens when the facts come out.

My first thought is Danish tourist crossing the road looked the wrong way
 

Old Timer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 5, 2009
1,279
12
Well, I`m not overly surprised, sometimes we get Lycras training around our lanes and they sweep up on you so fast and silently that I wonder there hasn`t been an accident even around our quiet lanes.
 

Straylight

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 31, 2009
650
2
That's a sad tale to start the day with :(

What will be interesting is the penalty imposed (if the the guy is found guilty), relative to what it would be for a car driver in a similar situation.

I suppose it's the novelty of the accident that means it gets reported, as many cyclists are killed and injured in London each year with barely a mention.

Still, a tragic loss of life, and my sympathies to the lady's family.
 

eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.
Well the guy is being reported as being arrested, he has not been charged, been to court or convicted yet. There is a long way to go and some appear to be presuming guilt! (see what effect the media has on even educated ecyclists !). And that's even if the story has been reported correctly! How do we know the tourist did not step out in front of the cyclist, it could be found to be her fault (for the sake of balance I'll presume because she was foreign that she was looking the wrong way when crossing the road).

Tragic RTC but it is one of the approx 10 a day killed on our roads and some of the stories of extremely poor or illegal driving and resultant lax sentencing applied to those cases (where there is blame) would really make you cry in despair.
 
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eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
I suspect there are a fair few minor collisions that dont get reported. I am not going to give an opinion as I dont know the facts, but I was involved in a car crash when a tourist ran out in front of a group of cars in central London..... At least this cyclist stopped.
 

Morag

Pedelecer
Feb 28, 2010
225
0
Shropshire
Very sad for the family of the deceased but I hope they investigate throughly.
 

Alex728

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 16, 2008
1,109
-1
Ipswich
theres a handful of cases of cyclist vs pedestrian RTC each year, they are concentrated mostly around London and the SE where everyone seems to be more aggressive on the roads..

the cyclists not only stopped but appears to have turned himself in which counts in his favour. I expect a lot of you also haven't been on the "wrong side" of the law. As a raver/hedonist once (no longer) involved in organising events and pirate radio stations (you do have to grow up one day!) I have been - not for anything really violent or really dysfunctional, only minor mischief..

Cops pick the highest charge they can when they first nick you - a bag of party drugs is always class A (even when it could be B or C), if found in a disused warehouse building late at night they assume you are some itinerant wanting to rob it for copper/lead (which ravers don't do as we need the leccy cable intact to power the sound system! :D)

I've even been once nicked for suspicion of stealing my own mobile phone (in the early 90s when fewer young people had them, they wanted to find out whether I was a drug dealer (which I wasn't, had the phone legit for work!)

So often what starts of a harsher charge ends up as a lesser charge leading to a caution or is dropped altogether.. as I've always held down a good job and not done any violent crime the cops used to just tell me what a naughty boy I was and send me on my way and give me the lesser of any penalty.. for minor stuff most of the time all cops and the justice systems wants is an admission of guilt and remorse for any problems you cause to others..

Now this RTC is of course a much more serious incident but as eTim said its innocent until proven guilty and up to metpol traffic to get evidence and Courts to decide the penalty. it might end up as a lesser traffic offence than manslaughter.

If it did end up as manslaughter I expect the penalty could be as little as 18 months/2 years in the can, same as for motorists - bear in mind a manslaughter case I am aware of involving a fight and violence in metpol area resulted in the surviving fighter only getting 5 years. Life is cheaper than you think.

That said, losing liberty/prison isn't as much of a pushover as people make it out to be whether its for 6 hours or 20 years, and for otherwise decent person to have something like this hanging over their head (even with drivers!) its a massive burden.
 
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Alex728

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 16, 2008
1,109
-1
Ipswich
BTW I don't think that RTC's with cyclist as victim are underreported, I read London local news for the crime section (where the RTCs end up) and there are loads in there, and particularly nasty crashes make the nationals fairly often. I suspect its more that that people perhaps subconciously shy away from reading bad news or have a limit to how much they can "handle", so after reading the weeks stabbings and shootings overlook the RTCs..

all road crashes are widely reported in East Anglian media, often making the bulk of a news day :eek:
 

Straylight

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 31, 2009
650
2
Ok, maybe a poor choice of words, I should have said that accidents where a cyclist is hurt are perhaps less commented upon, as I'm sure all incidents are reported somewhere.

True that RTAs are often headline news round here, but I think this reflects the relatively low crime rate, rather than the news media seeking them out to highlight. It never ceases to amaze me that the 3k odd deaths on the roads each year seem to be seen somehow as an acceptable consequence of modern life. The lack of public outrage indicates to me an unwillingness to accept collective responsibility for our mutual safety, whereas if an individual's mistake leads to "significant" injury or death, then the forces of hell are unleashed against them.The truth in my view is that every death on the road is significant, and that most are preventable.

(That was 'thought for the day' with Straylight, an electric cyclist with miles of country lanes to fill with contemplation :D ).
 
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Alex728

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 16, 2008
1,109
-1
Ipswich
It never ceases to amaze me that the 3k odd deaths on the roads each year seem to be seen somehow as an acceptable consequence of modern life. The lack of public outrage indicates to me an unwillingness to accept collective responsibility for our mutual safety, whereas if an individual's mistake leads to "significant" injury or death, then the forces of hell are unleashed against them.The truth in my view is that every death on the road is significant, and that most are preventable.
Yes, its equivalent in casualty terms to a terrorist bomb happening every week! There's also the unfortunate attiude that IMO road traffic offences aren't viewed as crime as such compared to drugs or theft or violence...

I obviously haven't always seen eye to eye with cops on many matters , but one thing I agree with them on is "a collision is no accident".
 

Stumpi

Pedelecer
Dec 3, 2009
192
40
Scotland
[QUOTEIt never ceases to amaze me that the 3k odd deaths on the roads each year seem to be seen somehow as an acceptable consequence of modern life][/QUOTE]

But our roads are busier than they have even been and are the safest they have ever been.

National Statistics Online
 

Alex728

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 16, 2008
1,109
-1
Ipswich
its a recent decline in casualty figures whilst its good news (and can't even be explained away by the recession) it also seems to coincide exactly with a greater deployment of surveillance infrastructure on the roads - not just speed cameras but ANPR linked CCTV and regular, constant and relentless targeted multi agency operations against bad and illegal drivers/vehicles - plus the rollout of the more secure Airwave police radio network

The unfortunately also implies its only the much disliked "nanny state" that is keeping the roads safe rather than a voluntary improvement in drivers' / road users behavour :( - still I suppose its what we pay our taxes for..
 

Straylight

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 31, 2009
650
2
But our roads are busier than they have even been and are the safest they have ever been.

National Statistics Online
And there I think you prove my point, yes the roads are busier, but it isn't enough to say that because it's statistically less likely to be hit by any individual road user these days, that so many deaths and injuries are in any way ok. Safety measures, training, enforcement, and penalties need to be better and more constructive, to aim for a situation where avoidable accidents are virtually unheard of.
 

HarryB

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2007
1,317
3
London
its a recent decline in casualty figures whilst its good news (and can't even be explained away by the recession) it also seems to coincide exactly with a greater deployment of surveillance infrastructure on the roads - not just speed cameras but ANPR linked CCTV and regular, constant and relentless targeted multi agency operations against bad and illegal drivers/vehicles - plus the rollout of the more secure Airwave police radio network

The unfortunately also implies its only the much disliked "nanny state" that is keeping the roads safe rather than a voluntary improvement in drivers' / road users behavour :( - still I suppose its what we pay our taxes for..
The is no correlation between number of speed cameras deployed and a reduction in road traffic deaths. The jury is still out if ANPR stops are having any effect (and there seems to be quite few of these on the roads). I suspect that the reduction in casualties is due to cars getting safer rather than anything to do with government intervention.

There are plenty of cyclist killed on the road in London - sometimes two in a week. They tend to be lorries crushing the cyclist under their rear wheels or against some railings - a particularly horrible death and I do think society turns a blind eye to these casualties. Why? I suspect because cyclists are perceived to have a low status. And if somebody with a low status kills somebody then society will throw the book at them. If a pedestrian runs out and is killed by a car we tend to shrug our shoulders and say it was an accident. I have been told by a policeman that provided the car driver is not drunk, on the phone, on the pavement or drives over a traffic island then it is unlikely any charges would be brought against them.

Pedestrians are always walking out in my path without so much as looking and it wouldn't take much for a small collision to take place. It only takes a fall and a small knock on your head to kill you I am afraid. There but the grace of god etc....
 
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simonbarnett

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 26, 2007
303
1
West Hampstead, NW London
Scary to think a bike can kill, whether an e-bike or not,but I take the point about an illegal one:eek: .

This collision happened at a junction which is on my route home each day. It's the road up from Euston to Camden High St., which is not as busy with pedestrians as the centre, so this sounds odd- maybe the tourist looking the wrong way could be right.
 

eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.
Scary to think a bike can kill, whether an e-bike or not,but I take the point about an illegal one:eek: .

This collision happened at a junction which is on my route home each day. It's the road up from Euston to Camden High St., which is not as busy with pedestrians as the centre, so this sounds odd- maybe the tourist looking the wrong way could be right.
With reference to the illegal ebike question:

If it was the pedestrians fault, the ebiker will be free from any charges but could face charges in relation to the use of an illegal vehicle and the subsequent punishments related to its use.

If it was the fault of the ebiker, then the cause of the accident would be interesting, it could be faulty brakes, he wasn't looking, speeding, dangerous riding, drunk etc, all of which apply to a non-ebiker. The ebiker could possibly face charges in relation to the use of an illegal vehicle and the subsequent punishments related to its use.

The scenarios that could be attributable to the pedestrians death through the use of an illegal ebike would be what? Electric shock? This would apply to a legal ebike also.

Apart from the media that might spin it out of all proportion, I'm failing to see what difference an illegal ebike might have in any RTC ?
 

lemmy

Esteemed Pedelecer
It never ceases to amaze me that the 3k odd deaths on the roads each year seem to be seen somehow as an acceptable consequence of modern life.
We accept a number of deaths in order that we can all move around more or less as we wish. It's unacceptable to say it but true nevertheless.

We could eliminate all motor vehicle road deaths by covering all vehicles in 2 metres of shock absorbing material and restricting the speed to 15mph.
We don't because we value our practical freedom of movement more than we worry about the low statistical chances of it happening.

Death is a consequence of life, surely whichever way you look at it. It doesn't seem to be acceptable, you have to accept it :D