Dahon Ciao (or similar Step-thru folding bike) conversion

[BisterMungle]

Hey Guys,

I'm going to try to be brief and to the point of my conversion in mind with which I'm desperately needing assistance. I'm aware of a few fundamental issues with conversions (i.e., not to use an aluminium fork if mounting a front hub motor), however I feel a bit hesitant about jumping on purchasing any particular kit.

I was initially looking for a folding e-bike that would get me to work (10 Km each way), would be easily taken on trips, into stores, friends' apartment buildings and so on. However, it became apparent that every bike I was finding was either too heavy, over 1,500 Euros, or just asking to be stolen. Hence I'm trying to to a conversion on a used Dahon Ciao (or similar Step-thru folding bike) for around 600-800 Euros, including the price of the bike.

Maybe some of you guys would be so kind to assist with recommending everything I would need to stay in budget, meaning no more than 500 Euros for all components. I need to know that all parts would be compatible with each other, and particularly the Dahon Ciao.

1. Dahon Ciao for around 200-300 Euros *yet to be purchased*
2. Compact/light hub motor (rear mounted to be less conspicuous). 250 W motor is fine for me.
3. Compact, small capacity battery - I don't care for more than 15 miles of range
4. Controls should be minimal, hopefully there's a cheap option just to change pedal-assist levels (no display)

Anyone have an idea of how to make this happen? Any suggestions are welcome!

 

[Jonah]

Have you considered the Woosh Rambletta?

The Rambletta | Powerful Foldable Electric Bikes with 10.4AH semi-hidden battery from Woosh

The Woosh Rambletta is the most recent 20kg folding bike from Woosh, with a large 36V * 10.4AH semi-hidden battery, very easy to stowaway, perfect for camping / caravanning.

wooshbikes.co.uk

 

[BisterMungle]

Have you considered the Woosh Rambletta?

The Rambletta | Powerful Foldable Electric Bikes with 10.4AH semi-hidden battery from Woosh

The Woosh Rambletta is the most recent 20kg folding bike from Woosh, with a large 36V * 10.4AH semi-hidden battery, very easy to stowaway, perfect for camping / caravanning.

wooshbikes.co.uk

Yes, but I've actually been putting more consideration into one of their kits. I really do like the Rambletta, but think I can still manage something a bit cheaper and lighter and something that again isn't asking to be stolen (My Vitus Nucleus was just stolen, but thankfully got most of the money back with our insurance policy). The Ciao is about 12.5 Kgs, so as long as I can manage to get everything else I need at no more than 3-4 Kgs it's a significant difference in weight compared to the Rambletta.

 

[Woosh]

it's difficult to electrify the Dahon Ciao.
You need a suitable motor wheel, with 83mm fork dropout, in 20" rim, such as the Aikema 75SX.
You will have to put up with either a handlebar bag like the Swytch kit or mount the HL downtube battery on top of the beam.
The cables are also exposed and subject to repetitive folding, so they need extra protection.
In all cases, it's difficult to keep the additional weight of the kit to under 5kgs even with a small capacity battery.
The lightest kit I can offer is the TS kit with a small frog battery but I don't have the 83mm motor until this corona virus is sorted. If I had to convert one of them today I will have to use a BBS01 kit with a small frog battery, total weight motor: 3.8kgs + battery: 2.6kg + LCD and wiring: 0.5kg = about 6.5kgs-7kgs and the result would be more expensive than the Rambletta.

 

[BisterMungle]

it's difficult to electrify the Dahon Ciao.
You need a suitable motor wheel, with 83mm fork dropout, in 20" rim, such as the Aikema 75SX.
You will have to put up with either a handlebar bag like the Swytch kit or mount the HL downtube battery on top of the beam.
The cables are also exposed and subject to repetitive folding, so they need extra protection.
In all cases, it's difficult to keep the additional weight of the kit to under 5kgs even with a small capacity battery.
The lightest kit I can offer is the TS kit with a small frog battery but I don't have the 83mm motor until this corona virus is sorted. If I had to convert one of them today I will have to use a BBS01 kit with a small frog battery, total weight motor: 3.8kgs + battery: 2.6kg + LCD and wiring: 0.5kg = about 6.5kgs-7kgs and the result would be more expensive than the Rambletta.

Thanks for taking the time to make recommendations. I'm really drawn to the Rambletta, but I'm really pushing for something right around 15 kg. I had a Dahon Vitesse D7HG for a few years and really liked the build quality given its super light weight. I knew this would be demanding project to begin with; as you've pointed out the hinge complicates everything. I've looked into Swytch, but after reading about some quality issues I've become reluctant to going this route.

Maybe you could advise me of far simpler conversion I could look into with a step-thru folding bike?
Or as a last ditch effort, (if it's the step-thru frame that's complicating matters so much) maybe you could recommend another widely available folding bike I might find on eBay that could be used to hit the 15 kg mark and remain under 800 Euros.

Thanks again!

 

[Woosh]

Thanks for taking the time to make recommendations. I'm really drawn to the Rambletta, but I'm really pushing for something right around 15 kg. I had a Dahon Vitesse D7HG for a few years and really liked the build quality given its super light weight. I knew this would be demanding project to begin with; as you've pointed out the hinge complicates everything. I've looked into Swytch, but after reading about some quality issues I've become reluctant to going this route.

Maybe you could advise me of far simpler conversion I could look into with a step-thru folding bike?
Or as a last ditch effort, (if it's the step-thru frame that's complicating matters so much) maybe you could recommend another widely available folding bike I might find on eBay that could be used to hit the 15 kg mark and remain under 800 Euros.

Thanks again!

even if budget is not a factor, it's not easy to find a normal folding bike in the range of 10kgs-12kgs. The frame folding hinge adds so much more weight to the frame that a folding bike weighs usually more than a non folding one.
vfr400 had a Dahon Vitesse D7 (without the HG) which he converted - ask him, he may give you his recipe.
He brought his D7 to my shop about 8 years ago, it can be an excellent commuter.

Still, you need to budget about £500 for a decent kit.

 

[Jonah]

Have you seen these?

.: Kudos Cycles - e-bikes with style :.

Might not be as nice a ride but light and cheap.

 

[BisterMungle]

Have you seen these?

.: Kudos Cycles - e-bikes with style :.

Might not be as nice a ride but light and cheap.

That's actually seems like a nice option, but I'm not sure whether it can be imported into Germany where throttle operated ebikes are prohibited. Otherwise it's not bad. I'd still prefer 20" wheels and a battery that's not fully or partially housed in the frame, but I'll definitely keep it in mind if it's able to be imported.

I feel like the Swytch kit is the only thing that would work with a Dahon...which of course has to have a steel fork and an easy-to-work-with dropout.

 

[Jonah]

That's actually seems like a nice option, but I'm not sure whether it can be imported into Germany where throttle operated ebikes are prohibited. Otherwise it's not bad. I'd still prefer 20" wheels and a battery that's not fully or partially housed in the frame, but I'll definitely keep it in mind if it's able to be imported.

I feel like the Swytch kit is the only thing that would work with a Dahon...which of course has a steel fork and easy-to-work-with dropout size.

I have a Swytch kit on a Brompton that I’m quite happy with. The new ones (if they’re available now) are even smaller / lighter. I had a long wait for mine, around 6 months but that was a while ago now.

 

[BisterMungle]

I have a Swytch kit on a Brompton that I’m quite happy with. The new ones (if they’re available now) are even smaller / lighter. I had a long wait for mine, around 6 months but that was a while ago now.

Yeah, I'm interested in a Brompton actually and have been for a while after I sold my Dahon. It seems like Swytch is always on pre-order and never available to actually order. I'd be willing to grab a Brompton and wait until a solution arises from Swytch or another competitor. I should be able to find a used Brompton for around 800-900, methinks.

 

[Jonah]

Yeah, I'm interested in a Brompton actually and have been for a while after I sold my Dahon. It seems like Swytch is always on pre-order and never available to actually order. I'd be willing to grab a Brompton and wait until a solution arises from Swytch or another competitor. I should be able to find a used Brompton for around 800-900, methinks.

Woosh are planning a Brompton kit. Maybe a bit delayed by covid-19.

 

[Woosh]

Brompton kit: they were due after Christmas but got delayed - finally left China last week and are at sea now.
Expected arrival in a month.

 

[BisterMungle]

Brompton kit: they were due after Christmas but got delayed - finally left China last week and are at sea now.
Expected arrival in a month.

I'd be willing to pay a bit more over my 800 Euros Budget to get a Brompton kit from you guys. Is the battery rack or handlebar mounted? Is there also an idea on the pricing?

 

[Woosh]

we have two batteries: the small frog that can be mounted to the front luggage rack block and the HL battery that can be mounted to the curved beam.
Controller: Lishui 15A
LCD KD58C
The motor is the Q70 mounted to a Brompton compatible rim. The price with 13AH small frog or HL battery is £529, with 17AH HL battery is £629.

 

[MikelBikel]

we have two batteries: the small frog that can be mounted to the front luggage rack block and the HL battery that can be mounted to the curved beam.
Controller: Lishui 15A
LCD KD58C
The motor is the Q70 mounted to a Brompton compatible rim. The price with 13AH small frog or HL battery is £529, with 17AH HL battery is £629.

Tempting, esp if battery could be shared with other kits, irresistible if its battery was 48v.

 

[BisterMungle]

I'm floating the idea of picking up a used M3R or new B75 while I'm in London in May. It's insane how inflated the price of a Brompton is in Germany.

 

[Jonah]

I'm floating the idea of picking up a used M3R or new B75 while I'm in London in May. It's insane how inflated the price of a Brompton is in Germany.

If buying used, be aware that Brompton changed their bottom bracket / cranks / chainwheel set up a while ago (for the better). Older models have little room to fit PAS magnetic ring but there is ample space on new models. I’m not sure when this change took place.

 

[Jonah]

we have two batteries: the small frog that can be mounted to the front luggage rack block and the HL battery that can be mounted to the curved beam.
Controller: Lishui 15A
LCD KD58C
The motor is the Q70 mounted to a Brompton compatible rim. The price with 13AH small frog or HL battery is £529, with 17AH HL battery is £629.

Do you have any images of the frog type battery mounted on the luggage block? Is the controller part of the ‘battery’ in this set up? Do you have weights for the components? (I may have missed this elsewhere). Thanks.

 

[Woosh]

I designed the block adapter sometime ago, based on this one:

I am redoing it at the moment to reduce the 3D printing cost, having a bit of time on my hand this week.


Here are the details of the frog battery:

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?batteries#smallfrog

The steel metal clip is replaced by a 3D printed piece.
The kit adds about 5kgs to the Brompton.

 

[BisterMungle]

If buying used, be aware that Brompton changed their bottom bracket / cranks / chainwheel set up a while ago (for the better). Older models have little room to fit PAS magnetic ring but there is ample space on new models. I’m not sure when this change took place.

I think I'm more leaning towards the B75 option unless I can find a good deal on a 2018 or 2019 model.