Datatag systems on KTM Bikes....

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Hi guys....

just a quick question to you all, as this is a nice quick way of getting some feedback from end users and trade customers.

If we were to offer Datatags systems as a complimentary upgrade on all eBikes purchased in the UK, would you appreciate the value in this?

Datatag ID Limited Bicycle System

We've had all our demo bikes datatag'd up and we think its a great system, so we'd like to offer it to our customers.

There would be no cost to the dealer or end consumer. We're paying!

What do you think?

 

[barrycoll]

I would be happier if KTM bought me one of these

Kryptonite New York Standard NYL U Lock with Flexframe Bracket (3000) - Black/Yellow: Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

the data tag won't stop the theft, but it only 'may' inconvenience the thief

 

[Clockwise]

I would ask the police what they are checking for when/if they stop a cyclist or find a suspected stolen bike. Going back a few years I had friends buy into some of the tagging systems and sure they looked great with stickers saying tracked by dabolex or whatever but when we stopped at a bike doctor/police stop thing they had no idea what it was or how to check it. Police have done UV pen marking for years now, never once seen a police officer with a UV torch.

But then I still think anyone who comes into contact with bikes should check the frame number under the bb to see if it is stolen. People only buy stolen bikes to use them and if the chance is you walk into your local bike shop with a puncture to have them find it's stolen so they take it off you then word will get about that stolen bikes or iffy 2nd hand bikes are a no go.

As above also. Even a 1/2 price voucher would do me good when it comes to decent locks.

 

[Yamdude]

Datatag, and the other system Alphadot were used on motorcycles years ago...... no one bothers fitting them anymore. There must be a reason for that.

I'd be much more impressed with a decent lock given with a bike.

 

[Keith Jones]

Datatag is better than nothing but a lock will hinder any theft and at best prevent it....so voucher for lock preferred

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Better still: however much it was going to cost for the Datatags, take that off the purchase price and leave it to the punters to sort their own security.

 

[SRS]

I would be happier if KTM bought me one of these

Kryptonite New York Standard NYL U Lock with Flexframe Bracket (3000) - Black/Yellow: Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

the data tag won't stop the theft, but it only 'may' inconvenience the thief

I agree, data tag won't stop you walking home. Stop it getting stolen in the first place.

From my own experience, if your cycle does get stolen, the police could not give a t**s. It's just more paperwork to them.
Won't even come out to discuss the crime or check out the area.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I'm slightly shocked and disappointed by these replies.

I don't work for datatag so this is just my opinion.

Comments like this:

the data tag won't stop the theft, but it only 'may' inconvenience the thief

Really miss the point. A lock is an inconvenience to a thief! What datatag are trying to do is prevent the theft.

Why do people steal bikes, I think we can all agree its generally not because they can't be bothered to walk home. They are stolen because they are high value items that are easy to punt on and make a few quid.

I'm on my iPad so i can't grab quotes from the rest of the replies very easily. But the motorcycle industry is very much behind the datatag system, because its proved to work. Lots of the big manufactures fit the systems at the factory level.

Eg KTM motorbikes

KTM JOINS THE FIGHT AGAINST MOTORCYCLE THEFT | Motorbike News

Which is if I'm honest where we got the idea from.


We have a pretty unique opportunity because we really are at the start of something with ktm eBikes in the uk. Our idea is that every ktm ebike that's sold in this country is fitted with the datatag system. This means that they are impossible to be sold on eBay or taken in part exchange in any store without being very easily tracked.

Each bike would have a taper evident qr code on it, and the forks, frame, battery would be marked up with the uv unique reference and phone number.

If you can prevent the trade in stolen bikes, you kill the thefts.

One of ou demo bikes was stolen last month. We promoted it heavily on the Internet and at all the relevant riding centres (it was a downhill bike) because us and the media made the bike too hot to handle and essentially impossible to sell, the bike was actually returned and dumped in the garden of the house where it was stolen from. This is because the bike was ours we knew it was unique, we made sure the theif new it was unique and therefore it was worthless to them.

The police have all the kit because its widespread in the motorcycle industry.

So if we can make sure all ktm eBikes in the uk are equipped we should make it impossible to sell a stolen one, and therefore make them worthless to criminals.

I will say again, locks don't stop high value bikes begin stolen. Most are taken from houses or off cars or you get knocked off whilst riding them. A high value lock is worth having, but were trying to offer something more, and different.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Oops.... Double posted, sorry.

 

[No1foxy]

Hi,
I think Data tag is a good idea, do every thing you can to deter people from taking your bike, it is your responsibility at the end of the day. I have data tag and a very good gold standard lock, if some ass hole wants your bike enough they will take it. If a company is going to give you a hand in stopping/recovering your bike, be grateful. It does not matter how you try to help some people there are people who can't be helped.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

And I should just add, that when you buy an ebike worth x amount, you should factor in also buying a lock to protect it, that's just common sense.

What were trying to do is the thing that actually costs considerably less than the lock, that most people don't bother to do. If they did, and if everyone did it, bike crime would be lower. But because I bet most of you don't even know your frame number (I know we didnt when our downhill bike got stolen) this is something that we can do, that takes no effort from you and no cost, but might just be the one things that prevents your bike being stolen without you even realising its had the effect it's designed to.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Everything comes at a cost. Data Tags are not free. If they're fitted, the cost of the bike will go up. The question is whether the benefit from fitting the tags is worth the cost. I don't personally believe that that offer any significant deterrence, nor does any low-life who waits in Sainsburys car park with his bolt croppers even know what a Data Tag is. He'll see somebody park his nice electric MTB in the bike rack and disappear inside the shop to do the shopping, whereupon he jumps out from where he's lurking, crops the chain, and rides the bike off in seconds. He then takes it to Joe-the fence to get the money for his next fix, leaving Joe to figure out what a Data Tag is.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Everything comes at a cost. Data Tags are not free. If they're fitted, the cost of the bike will go up. The question is whether the benefit from fitting the tags is worth the cost. I don't personally believe that that offer any significant deterrence, nor does any low-life who waits in Sainsburys car park with his bolt croppers even know what a Data Tag is. He'll see somebody park his nice electric MTB in the bike rack and disappear inside the shop to do the shopping, whereupon he jumps out from where he's lurking, crops the chain, and rides the bike off in seconds. He then takes it to Joe-the fence to get the money for his next fix, leaving Joe to figure out what a Data Tag is.

The price of the bikes will not go up. It's coming out of our margin, as we believe it's a valuable addition.

Your story needs finishing off.

Joe trys to sell to bike on eBay, or it goes into a shop at some point, where they qr code on the bike is scanned, just using a smart phone and the bike is recorded as stolen and can be returned to the owner.

This is particularly relevant to eBikes because they need to buy a charger from somewhere.

Joe quickly learns what datatag is so wont give low life's money for datatag equipped bikes again.

So lowlifes learn to look for the sticker before bothering to pinch the bike.

And next time they will look elsewhere.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I didn't say the price. I said the cost.

 

[Yamdude]

Datatag has certainly never stopped motorcycles being nicked, neither has it had any affect in stolen bikes being recovered, as there's loads of reports on bike forums of datatagged bikes being nicked and never seen again. Bikers generally do not see it as being much worth. I don't know anyone that has it these days on a motorcycle, as far as I know its not fitted now to Jap bikes.
It may be different with cycles and ebikes, but I honestly fail to see how it will stop them being stolen. Only a decent lock and where you park the bike will go some way towards that.
Of course, you claim its free, which is fair enough we might as well have it if its free..... but the cynic in me just thinks its a cheap add on for you to sell your ebikes. How much are these kits ? £15 ? £20 ?.... hardly a big deal on a 2 grand ebike.
As has been said earlier..... i'd be far more impressed with being given a substantial decent lock free with the bike.

 

[Yamdude]

One thing I would like to know.... is how you scan these kits with a smartphone.
You used to have to use a special scanner, that was supposedly given to police forces.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I didn't say the price. I said the cost.

ok, whats the difference?

Cost to the end customer won’t go up.
Cost to the dealer won’t go up.

You wont notice any difference apart from your bike is a bit safer.

Datatag has certainly never stopped motorcycles being nicked, neither has it had any affect in stolen bikes being recovered, as there's loads of reports on bike forums of datatagged bikes being nicked and never seen again. Bikers generally do not see it as being much worth. I don't know anyone that has it these days on a motorcycle, as far as I know its not fitted now to Jap bikes.
It may be different with cycles and ebikes, but I honestly fail to see how it will stop them being stolen. Only a decent lock and where you park the bike will go some way towards that.
Of course, you claim its free, which is fair enough we might as well have it if its free..... but the cynic in me just thinks its a cheap add on for you to sell your ebikes. How much are these kits ? £15 ? £20 ?.... hardly a big deal on a 2 grand ebike.
As has been said earlier..... i'd be far more impressed with being given a substantial decent lock free with the bike.

I’m not sure where you getting your informatation from, but its very out of date.

DataTag is proven to stop motorbikes being stolen. A store we know was broken into, they stock two brands of bike - one brand of Motorbike that has datatag fitted. The Datatag equipped bikes were left, and the theives took the other brand.

And the japanese brands do now fit datatag as standard.

Suziki

Suzuki and Datatag in new bike security scheme

Honda

HONDA ANNOUNCE FITMENT OF INDUSTRY MASTER SECURITY SCHEME TO HELP BEAT CRIME

Yamaha.

YAMAHA TO FIT INDUSTRY MASTER SECURITY SCHEME TO HELP PROTECT OWNERS FROM THEFT

One thing I would like to know.... is how you scan these kits with a smartphone.
You used to have to use a special scanner, that was supposedly given to police forces.

The modern datatag systems include a QR code for your bike, on a tamper proof sticker.

QR code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

these can be scanned by any smart phone and will tell you if a bike has been stolen in seconds. Which is much better than any frame number.

Hope this clears up some of your misconceptions.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You asked an open question, and people gave their honest answers. I get the impression from your comments that KTM are going to fit Datatags anyway. Good luck to them. This reminds me of the Apprentice TV show, where some of the team are sent out to do the market research. They bring back their results to the arrogant team leader, who's already decided what he wants to do, so he says that the market research is wrong. The product flops, and the team leader gets fired by Alan Sugar - very entertaining!

By the cost, I mean the cost to make the bike. The Datatags are a component of that, since I doubt that they'll be provided to KTM FOC. Most manufacturers take the manufacturing costs and add a margin for profit. Some start with the market price and work back from there, but the result is the same. Every component that is inncluded ultimately affects the sales price

 

[Yamdude]

So it seems that the jap bike manufacturers are to start fitting this again..... they certainly haven't been for a good few years. I buy a new motorcycle every two to three years, yet I cannot remember last time it was fitted to a bike I bought. Certainly not my current Yamaha, neither has it been on the previous 3 new Suzuki's I bought.
I expect they are just trying to keep up with one another, although having Datatag fitted or not certainly would not be a determining factor on what motorcycle I bought.

Also as you can use a smartphone for the code, I assume the kits you fit don't have a transponder then ? Because it was these transponders that used to need a police scanner.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

You asked an open question, and people gave their honest answers. I get the impression from your comments that KTM are going to fit Datatags anyway. Good luck to them. This reminds me of the Apprentice TV show, where some of the team are sent out to do the market research. They bring back their results to the arrogant team leader, who's already decided what he wants to do, so he says that the market research is wrong. The product flops, and the team leader gets fired by Alan Sugar - very entertaining!

I can see why it might seem like that, however we’re not arguing with your opinion – you’re entitled to it. What we’re trying to do is educate you about the benefits, which based on the responses so far, no one on here seems to actually understand or appreciate.

Plus you seem very cynical about the costs, which again is unfounded

By the cost, I mean the cost to make the bike. The Datatags are a component of that, since I doubt that they'll be provided to KTM FOC. Most manufacturers take the manufacturing costs and add a margin for profit. Some start with the market price and work back from there, but the result is the same. Every component that is inncluded ultimately affects the sales price

I appreciate your comments, but I can promise you, this won’t effect the price of the KTM bikes in anyway. The datag are not being fitted by KTM in Austria. This is a trial we’re doing here in the UK. So everytime an eBike is shipped to a dealer, we’ll send them a DataTag System for free. We have a business plan developed that ensures this won’t cost us a penny to do, so you have no fear of the cost being passed onto the retailer or customer. It won’t be, because there is no cost.

So it seems that the jap bike manufacturers are to start fitting this again..... they certainly haven't been for a good few years. I buy a new motorcycle every two to three years, yet I cannot remember last time it was fitted to a bike I bought. Certainly not my current Yamaha, neither has it been on the previous 3 new Suzuki's I bought.
I expect they are just trying to keep up with one another, although having Datatag fitted or not certainly would not be a determining factor on what motorcycle I bought.

Also as you can use a smartphone for the code, I assume the kits you fit don't have a transponder then ? Because it was these transponders that used to need a police scanner.

I think the change in heart is due to the improved technology and also the fact that insurance companies are now partnering with Datatag to offer discounts if the bikes are equipped, as not only does the new system result in lower thefts, it also means more bikes are returned. Which means lower insurance costs and everyone is happy.

Yes, there is no need to fit a transponder. The bikes are stickers and labelled up with uv unique numbers, so that even if you do manage to get the sticker off, the bike is still easily id’able with a UV torch. Most bike shops and all police stations have these.

All we want to be able to do is make sure that if ever a KTM eBike comes up for sale you as a potential customer can ask for the datatag details so you can see its not been stolen.