[Driving Test] Mid-Drive+Torque Sensor VS Hub Motor+Cadence Sensor

[The Strong Goat]

Hello everyone,

After my post Speed Sensor? Torque Sensor? I can see there really isn't a unanimous answer for this. So I borrowed two bikes from my friend and put them in a very simple:
one of them is equipped with Mid-Drive Motor plus Torque Sensor the other equipped with Hub Motor plus Cadence Sensor.
(PS: Since I mainly focused on the riding experience based on the two different Sensors, so I won't list all the specs of these two bikes. If it's something intrigue you, then maybe message me personally)

I tested these following two bikes in a spacious industrial park in Kunshan with almost no traffic in the night, which provided me with an ideal testing field.

The one with Mid-Drive and Torque Sensor


The one with Hub-Motor and Cadence Sensor
(Please forgive my lousy appearance!!!)



Overall I have to say both bikes serve me fine. They could reach a comparatively high speed easily while my riding was effortless, but I can still distinguish some difference between the two bikes and personally I prefer the Mid-Drive Motor plus Torque Sensor and the reasons state as below:

1. Pedalling on the "Air":
When I was riding the Cadence Sensor one and turned the assistance level high enough, E.G 30km/h, you actually feel you are pedalling on the "air"!!! With no resistance from the pedal since the motor already output enough which requires no input from the rider. It's bit awkward for me to manage my feet under this circumstances I have to say... While when I was riding the Torque Sensor one, no matter how strong the assistance level is I can still feel I was pedalling something which made my feet moving naturally! (Of course, the downside of it is you have to input somewhat anyway!)

2. When you want to ride slowly:
During my test riding, I found if you are not familiar with your Cadence Sensor Bike, then you'd better to totally turn the assistance off while you want to ride slowly E.G turning in a cross and etc, since if the assistance is on then even when you pedal gently, you still could trigger the motor which sends you into a high-speed E.G 20km/h with a sudden but gentle push. Of course, I have no problem of reining it back, but this sudden "push" is not to my favour...

Of course, I don't think these two problems are serious at all and just a few minutes riding, I learnt how to tame them.

However, the cadence sensor is more common on the market and they are also more economical compared to Torque Sensor. According to my friend, due to the UK market is somehow behind other markets E.G Netherland and Germany, the Cadence Sensor should meet the majority needs of the market. (No offence mates!!! I'm just quoting here!!!)

After all, I'm still a newbie in this industry so please be kind to bear with me for any possible mistakes! What's more, all the above comments are just based on my personal feeling. I would fully appreciate that different people have different feeling and taste!

Any comments and thoughts are welcomed by me!

 

[Trevormonty]

You experiences are similar to mine. The cadence sensing hub drive assist levels were more like speed control which went in 5kmh steps ie 10, 15....30kmh. Made fine speed control very difficult.

For most riding its not big issue and is actually plus for sweat free commuting or cruising. In the end both drive systems flatten the hills and eliminate headwind.

 

[Woosh]

Pedalling on the "Air":

there is a simple fix for this, which I have on some of my bikes fitted with the KD58C LCD*.
You go into advanced settings, then power setting and change the power ratio to suit your riding style.
My personal settings are:

Level 1: 35%
Level 2: 50%
Level 3: 65%
Level 4: 80%
Level 5: 90%

100% = pedal air at high speed.

*The Rio MTB, the Zephyr and the Petite have this facility.

 

[The Strong Goat]

there is a simple fix for this, which I have on some of my bikes fitted with the KD58C LCD*.
You go into advanced settings, then power setting and change the power ratio to suit your riding style.
My personal settings are:

Level 1: 35%
Level 2: 50%
Level 3: 65%
Level 4: 80%
Level 5: 90%

100% = pedal air at high speed.

*The Rio MTB, the Zephyr and the Petite have this facility.

Thanks, Woosh! I will speak to our tech guy here regarding your advice.

 

[mike killay]

My comment is that your test was on the flat and did not include a throttle.
Trying to start off uphill with only a cadence sensor is difficult because of the need to turn the pedals twice before power is obtained. (no problem if you have a throttle)
On the other hand, in hilly country, as you found out 'pedalling the air' will keep you going if you are tired, torque sensors will not do this.
The Netherlands and many parts of Germany are flat, the UK is generally hilly.

 

[The Strong Goat]

My comment is that your test was on the flat and did not include a throttle.
Trying to start off uphill with only a cadence sensor is difficult because of the need to turn the pedals twice before power is obtained. (no problem if you have a throttle)
On the other hand, in hilly country, as you found out 'pedalling the air' will keep you going if you are tired, torque sensors will not do this.
The Netherlands and many parts of Germany are flat, the UK is generally hilly.

Hi Mike,

You made a point here! Affected by my surroundings and my working conditions, I never thought about testing these bikes on hilly terrains! I will try to find a hilly place here but not sure there is one around me or I perhaps can bring some bikes to test when I go to hilly Wales later this year. It must be an interesting experience and I will report it here then.

Best regards

 

[Benjahmin]

I live in hilly West Wales and the throttle on my Ezee conversion is essential.

 

[The Strong Goat]

I live in hilly West Wales and the throttle on my Ezee conversion is essential.

Hi Benjahmin,

Thanks for your hands-on experience! Maybe have some ride together if the conditions allow and you can teach me more regarding pedelecs then.

Best regards

 

[g_9028]

I Have a Bike with a KD58c LCD The manual says how to get into settings like change speed but no why can I assess other than the start up screen how can I fix or put a new one in
Peter

 

[anotherkiwi]

My comment is that your test was on the flat and did not include a throttle.
Trying to start off uphill with only a cadence sensor is difficult because of the need to turn the pedals twice before power is obtained. (no problem if you have a throttle)

Sorry Mike but I am calling BS on this false idea. I live in the Basque country and my new flat is surrounded by >15% gradients in all of the three directions I can take to leave it. On my normal commute there is a stop sign at the top of a >13% gradient.

PAS works just fine if you have the correct equipement:

- The more magnets the PAS disk has the better, I like the 12 magnet disk
- My KT controller kicks in after 2 magnets have passed in front of the sensor
- With a 12 magnet disk that is 60° or less than 1/4 of a pedal rotation
- there is a "strong startup" option in the LCD3 configuration menu which gives maximum torque at startup

So I just stand on the pedal and hold on tight because I get a 600+ W (716 W hot off the charger) kick almost instantly whenever I start on a hill.

 

[Benjahmin]

Mine is an Ezee hub, I find first start (after turning on) takes something over a complete rotation for power to kick in. Thereafter it is nearly instantaneous.
For low speed control I use the throttle. It seems to me that it gives full power when fully open. If used gradually it gives partial power. This can be felt when riding in, lets say, pas3 and throttle is just opened. It over rides the pas and motor actually slows down. I seem to remember D8veh calling it a limiter!

Did you ever come to Wales Strong Goat?

 

[LeilanieB]

I Have a Bike with a KD58c LCD The manual says how to get into settings like change speed but no why can I assess other than the start up screen how can I fix or put a new one in
Peter

Did you hold down the + and - buttons long enough to enter the set up menus?
Then you press the + button to get to 4 - Set LS, then press M, set the speed to what you want and press M again. Holding the - for a couple of seconds takes you back to the main display