E-Bike over 250W Legal??

[melvyn]

Hi Guys,

I'm about to fit my eBay conversion kit but admit I'm getting a little twitchy about the motor wattage, meanwhile I came across this Ad. which implies some e-bikes over 250W are legal, is this because it has a speed limiter facility as mine does?

http://www.electricvehicles4you.org/500w__folding_e-bike.html

 

[the_killjoy]

The bike is not legal.

 

[Twangman]

Nice, good price but not road legal. It has a top speed of 35kph cruise control button and the motor is 1000w that's been programmed down to 500w though he supplies software that allows you to take it down to 250w or up to a 1000w!
If I was in the market for a new bike I'd be tempted.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Lots of people are currently selling illegal bikes and hoping customers either don't understand the risk, or don't care about them.

Hopefully the actions of these short sighted businesses won't bring the whole eBike market crashing down.

 

[Twangman]

What i don't understand they claim the bike is
CE and EN15194 approved.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Not nice and not road legal,500 watts is not legal but putting that aside.
That bike has a 12 Ah LifePo4 battery ( long life but heavy) and 500 watt direct drive motor( gear less and heavy),note the 32kg weight and most of it hanging out the back of the bike.
Ask to see a copy of the EN 15194 certificate,I cannot see how that motor can pass EN 15194.
Definitely a bike to be test ridden before purchase.
KudosDave

 

[anotherkiwi]

I have lived in France for quite some time and witnessed the birth, boom and decline of tuning kits for mopeds which is a similar problem - companies selling products that turn a legal vehicle into an illegal one.

What really decreased the number of kitted scooters on the road was:

1.the introduction of prosecution of garages fitting kits and I believe servicing kitted scooters
2. the ban of the sale of 2 stroke motors. Nowadays the 4 strokes that are on the market accept after market air filters and exhausts but the gain in power is in the order of 1 HP here and there not the 10's of HP increase available to a fully tuned 2 stroke motor.

High powered illegal e-bikes will go away if s-pedelecs are available on the market and classed as bicycles or something in between a bicycle and a moped. With helmet law that is based on common sense, I.e. permit the use of helmets that can be worn while pedalling, and with assistance speed limited to 45 kph but cycling speed limited to the legal maximum as it is with pedelecs and "normal" push bikes. It is really easy to hard wire maximum top speed into the controller of a factory produced pedelec or even a motor kit. It is really easy to remove user access to settings such as max top speed and wheel size (a way of getting around top speed limit) etc. All that is required is political and especially industrial awareness that a modern, relatively pollution free means of transport is available but the market is being hampered by in-adapted legislation.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I have lived in France for quite some time and witnessed the birth, boom and decline of tuning kits for mopeds which is a similar problem - companies selling products that turn a legal vehicle into an illegal one.

What really decreased the number of kitted scooters on the road was:

1.the introduction of prosecution of garages fitting kits and I believe servicing kitted scooters
2. the ban of the sale of 2 stroke motors. Nowadays the 4 strokes that are on the market accept after market air filters and exhausts but the gain in power is in the order of 1 HP here and there not the 10's of HP increase available to a fully tuned 2 stroke motor.

High powered illegal e-bikes will go away if s-pedelecs are available on the market and classed as bicycles or something in between a bicycle and a moped. With helmet law that is based on common sense, I.e. permit the use of helmets that can be worn while pedalling, and with assistance speed limited to 45 kph but cycling speed limited to the legal maximum as it is with pedelecs and "normal" push bikes. It is really easy to hard wire maximum top speed into the controller of a factory produced pedelec or even a motor kit. It is really easy to remove user access to settings such as max top speed and wheel size (a way of getting around top speed limit) etc. All that is required is political and especially industrial awareness that a modern, relatively pollution free means of transport is available but the market is being hampered by in-adapted legislation.

I think the technology of legal e-bikes has moved on so well in the last couple of years to question whether 350 watt S class bikes are really needed. I had opportunity to ride a 350 watt bike against a 250 watt BPM type motored bike,the former had a crank motor to allow high speeds,the latter had a motor to offer low speed torque.
Up to the legal 17 mph ( the display had been set on the 250 watt bike to power up to 17 mph),there was really no difference in the acceleration,if anything the 250 watt bike felt more powerful.
So I suppose the reason to buy an S-class would be high speed powered cruising but up to 17 mph there seemed no advantage. I tweaked the display on the 250 to get illegal 21mph,the motor speed not allowing any faster speed....so if you are going to be illegal (the tweaked display I suppose is equally illegal to an S-class illegality) you would buy an S-classif you have a wish to ride regularly at above 21 mph.
Respect I do not approve of illegal pedelecs but trying to be impartial to those who do not care about the method of illegality.
Note.The 250 watt BPM motored bike was £1500.00 less cost than the S-class bike.
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

What i don't understand they claim the bike is
CE and EN15194 approved.

There are also Chinese CE and EN15194 certificates.

They often really don't care about such regulations and some happily copy certificates in order to sell their products.

Take note, they are producing 1000 watt motors in the certain knowledge that there isn't a single country* in the world that permits them as bicycle motors. Doesn't that indicate a near universal contempt for laws?

* Even the USA doesn't permit them nationally, just a small minority of states do, hardy enough to be considered worthy of manufacturing.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Flecc.....one of the advantages of testing for EN15194 inside China is that the motors have already been tested by the test centre(normally SGS or TUV),the SWX or BPM motors are very familiar to the test centres,retesting of that element is not normally required,this makes testing considerably cheaper for any new model.
However,if you decide to go away from say Bafang then the new motor has to be tested and that increases the cost.
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

I don't think EN15194 relates to the S class, but that class is permitted 500 watts and that is the power claimed by the OP's seller. Maybe there's an EU loophole there for the countries permitting the S class?
.

 

[melvyn]

I'm glad I posted my enquiry, I hadn't realised what a potential risk of prosecution owning an e.bike was. My e-bike career is short lived, I shall consign my kit, still in it's box, to my loft, along with the rest of my unfinished projects. It's back to enjoying my new automatic car for me, warm and dry, and no worries about the possibilities of getting my "collar felt".

 

[danielrlee]

I'm glad I posted my enquiry, I hadn't realised what a potential risk of prosecution owning an e.bike was. My e-bike career is short lived, I shall consign my kit, still in it's box, to my loft, along with the rest of my unfinished projects. It's back to enjoying my new automatic car for me, warm and dry, and no worries about the possibilities of getting my "collar felt".

The operative word in that statement is 'potential'. I think that some of the posters here are overplaying the risk involved in running that kit. Now, I'm not saying that it isn't illegal, but if you act your age and don't ride like an utter loon, the chances of getting your collar felt are almost nil. Don't give up on it!

Now, can anyone point to a single successful prosecution against an electric bike owner in the uk? Col, want to start us off?.....

 

[oldtom]

I'm not saying that it isn't illegal, but if you act your age and don't ride like an utter loon, the chances of getting your collar felt are almost nil. Don't give up on it!

Ah, so it's ok to be a criminal if one complies with that common-sense approach! I'm sorry but you're wrong and you are simply encouraging other people to disregard the law.

Tom

 

[Croxden]

I often think I am the only one obeying the rules, not just with bikes.
Being able to cheat and get away with it is commonplace in all walks of life, and if caught, the penalties still make it worth while.

We were always taught to 'Play the Game' and to be fair, is this the beginning of the downfall of civilisation?

 

[Nealh]

I'm glad I posted my enquiry, I hadn't realised what a potential risk of prosecution owning an e.bike was. My e-bike career is short lived, I shall consign my kit, still in it's box, to my loft, along with the rest of my unfinished projects. It's back to enjoying my new automatic car for me, warm and dry, and no worries about the possibilities of getting my "collar felt".

As it I stll in its box I would ask for a refund stating the issues aired on hear and mention their mis representation of the legality, or sell it as many will not be put off by the fact that its illegal.

 

[flecc]

We all break the law. As part of the defence of the realm, by law every male in Britain over the age of 14 years has to spend two hours of longbow practice every week under the supervision of their vicar.

That law has never been repealed and is still fully in force and prosecutable.

It's one of the very many that we routinely ignore.
.

 

[Croxden]

There a village school near to me that has archery lessons, not sure if the vicar is present.

 

[melvyn]

I must admit to being an impulse buyer, i.e. buying without doing sufficient research, I always end up buying everything twice. I must be grateful to the trade forum members for the heads up on this one. Just two parting observations, I can see why I only ever see ebikers riding around the flatter parts of the UK, I've never seen one trying to ride up any of the hills around here, probably due to the assistance from the puny legal electric motor is negated by the extra weight of the battery, motor, etc.the result being the rider would be better off using his own pedal power alone. It also seems to me that even if your riding a totally legal ebike your likely to be pulled over at any time by an over zealous PC or CSO to a have your bike inspected, which is not conducive to a pleasant cycle ride out into the countryside; it's perhaps better to avoid ebikes altogether.

 

[Croxden]

I wouldn't be doing the miles I do in my hilly area without the benefits provided by Bosch.

The best of the Lycra lads may just keep ahead on some of the hills but I have 50 years on them and arrive less sweaty & exhausted.

But I go for a pleasant ride not to prove anything.