E-kit purchase - questions from a newbie

tobo43

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 6, 2018
9
0
42
Hi
I'm new to e-bikes.

I want to buy a kit for my mtb to use the bike only on-roadas commuter and for longer trips).

My expectations (don't know if they are realistic):

- rear wheel motor
- top speed - about 25-30 miles/h
- range: 40-50 miles per one full charge riding 20 miles/h. I live in a very hilly area Dewsbury/West Yorkshire
- wheel size 26/27.5
- standard 8-10 speed compatible - cassette freehub
- disc brake compatible.

If I buy a kit and a battery from two different suppliers- are they comparable? I mean plugs , wires etc .


I has to be reliable.
I want to buy the kit and the battery from a shop in UK (local - I live in Dewsbury/West Yorkshire or on-line) or on Ebay.
The price? I don't need any high tech stuff, need something that works.

Please link any Ebay or on-line offers if you can.
Thanks.
 
Last edited:

Benjahmin

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 10, 2014
2,005
1,383
67
West Wales
One way to achieve the speed is to have a motor specced for a 20" wheel, built into your bigger wheel. However, this way you will loose hill climbing torque.
Another way is to use a 36v motor and overvolt it at 48v. Yoy will gain 25% speed and torque - approx.
However to do this you will have to buy components which may not be compatible without a soldering iron etc. As this is your first kit (bet you'll want to do others) it'd be a good idea to go for a kit which will be plug and play.
A geared hub will give you reliability, hill climbing ability (you have to put the work in) and an ability to reach cut off speed, legally 15.5mph.
Have a look at Woosh kits. Tony will tell you what speed you can expect from one of theirs. They supply on line and have a good rep on here.
Bear in mind that the faster you go the less range you will get.
 

tobo43

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 6, 2018
9
0
42
Thank you!
I don't want to modify the kit, want to buy one that comes as close as possible to my expecitations.
I checked Woosh, all I found are "legal" kits and an information that removing restrictions will result with warranty void .
Maybe I found wrong site?
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
16,904
14,776
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
I checked Woosh, all I found are "legal" kits and an information that removing restrictions will result with warranty void .
that notice is applicable to all CD kits because there is a danger of overheating the motor. When you derestrict a CD kit, you can hit 24mph and more at the push of a button.. At that speed, the CD motor works at 100% its ability, if you maintain that regime for a while, the motor will overheat and shorten its life expectancy.
We will be selling from next month the 48V Tongsheng TSDZ2 which is more powerful than Bafang BBS01B that we currently sell. The notice is applicable to the TSDZ2 too, but the risk is reduced if you don't fit the throttle. The TSDZ2 has a torque sensor, so instinctively, you would be riding in the right gear all the time. If you fit the throttle to the TSDZ2, the guarantee will exclude the blue cog. This is a fairly inexpensive part to replace. The main thing is we try to warn you of the potential dangers to your motor.
Hub kits don't suffer the same way, if you go faster than 18mph, the motor takes less and less power, there is no real harm to the motor core, only to the built--in gearbox, a relatively inexpensive part to replace if it's worn out.
Getting back to the thread, the best torque motor in geared hub kits is the 48V SWX02. We only have 26" or 700C. If your bike has 650B, 700C can be used. Also, you will need to get a Sunrace freewheel to match your current gears, the 48V kit is threaded for screw on freewheels. If you have any questions, please email support@wooshbikes.co.uk

All the best,

Tony
 
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tobo43

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 6, 2018
9
0
42
Thank you for your response.
I don't understand all you write. First it's pretty new for me, second I'm Polish. :)
Forgive me all "silly" questions.

1. What does CD mean?

2. Is there an overheating risk for all motors - 250 and 1000 watts?

3. If I buy a kit with rear motor can I use my 2x10speed xt drivetrain? Or do I have to replace the cassette and put a 10 speed threaded sprockets? Do you have that type?

4. If I would like to have the performance that I described in my first post (25-30 mph max, 20mph cruise with 40-50 miles range in hilly location) is this realistic with any of your kits and batteries?
If yes - how much does it cost - the kit, the battery and the set all inclusive?

5. If I want to put a front wheel motor on my bike how does it perform on very steep uphills?

6. My ideal set works like the sets on "legal" e-bikes , but without 25 kmh restriction: the motor supports the rider when he pedals (torque sensor?), there are 3 different modes (called for example eco, sport and turbo). Do you offer kits with this feature?

Thank you for any answers.
 

Benjahmin

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 10, 2014
2,005
1,383
67
West Wales
1 Crank Drive, this is a motor mounted on the bottom bracket.
2 Yes if they are used inefficiently. Most 250w motors are geared (normally 5:1) and operate most efficiently in a range of 50-8-% of their maximum speed. In practice this is roughly 8mph up to 15mph. Hubs only suffer if going slower than 8 (up steep hills) for long periods. If they go faster they are fine.
Most 1000w motors are direct drive. Whilst these will give you the speed you want, they are highly inefficient at low speeds. So they eat batteries and have crap hill climbing characteristics and will stall if run too slow.
3 Not sure, but I think the maximum of cogs on a threaded cassette is 7. But you could still use your front deraileur.
5 Front hubs are OK on steep roads (I have two). They can scrub sometimes if the road surface is loose or slimey with algae. I try to keep mine at 8mph or above when climbing, but I have had them down to 6mph with no ill effects. They just get 'growly' at that speed.
6 Most hub kits are pas (peddle asist sensor). This detects the rotation of peddles and gives power assist to the level set on your handlebar control. It does not need you to put any weight on the peddles, just turn them.
The TSDZ2 kit, that Tony mentioned, is a CD kit. It comes with a torque sensor apparently. This measures the weight you put on the peddles and gives an amount of assist proportional to that effort. The harder you push the more assist you get. So if you are tired or a weak cyclist, pas will probably suit you better. If you are a strong cyclist who doesn't run out of energy half way up a hil, then torque sense may be for you.
Most kits have 5 levels of assist, some have more.
Can't comment on speed derestriction - never seen the need for it.

By the way, your English is excellent.
 

KirstinS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 5, 2011
3,209
888
Brighton
In very simple terms 22 to 24 mph is achievable in a variety of ways with various standard kits

If you really want to do 25 to 30mph then of course it can be done but cost of the kit you will need to do that reliably will be huge increase. Especially to get the range you seek.


Let’s say 22 mph can be done for £500 kit
Then 28mph will be £1000 or more to get the range

This is proper “back of a fag packet working “ but the principle stands

Do you really really need that speed and range ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

tobo43

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 6, 2018
9
0
42
Thanks.
3. Threaded cogs come in different combinations from 7 to 10. 10sp ones are very expensive. 7sp is made by Shimano 8-10 By Sunrace.
If I have to swap the drivetrain I will do it but it's an extra cost and mnie is Shimano xt thatis very good .


Crank drive - do those kits come with bottom brackets an crank arms? I think they do.
Problem is when I enter woosh website I can't find nothing but complete bikes - does it mean the kits are available only calling Woosh? Would like to see the kits and the prices to avoid furher question about simple things.

Is it true that to use the pedal assist I need to have (for rear hub motor) a Square bottom bracket and a crankset? ...
 

KirstinS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 5, 2011
3,209
888
Brighton
Thanks.
3. Threaded cogs come in different combinations from 7 to 10. 10sp ones are very expensive. 7sp is made by Shimano 8-10 By Sunrace.
If I have to swap the drivetrain I will do it but it's an extra cost and mnie is Shimano xt thatis very good .


Crank drive - do those kits come with bottom brackets an crank arms? I think they do.
Problem is when I enter woosh website I can't find nothing but complete bikes - does it mean the kits are available only calling Woosh? Would like to see the kits and the prices to avoid furher question about simple things.

Is it true that to use the pedal assist I need to have (for rear hub motor) a Square bottom bracket and a crankset? ...
You do not need to swap drive chain unless the gearing doesn’t work for you with a crank drive . Also you can swap the front chainring for different sizes too. This can alter the whole range up or down too.

Crank drives do away with the bottom bracket. You don’t need one and you need to remove it to fit a crank kit . They do come with crank arms

Woosh kits may be found here (though I agree I find their kit section quite hard to navigate though it is very thorough )

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits

Or

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?cstkit



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

tobo43

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 6, 2018
9
0
42
In very simple terms 22 to 24 mph is achievable in a variety of ways with various standard kits

If you really want to do 25 to 30mph then of course it can be done but cost of the kit you will need to do that reliably will be huge increase. Especially to get the range you seek.


Let’s say 22 mph can be done for £500 kit
Then 28mph will be £1000 or more to get the range

This is proper “back of a fag packet working “ but the principle stands

Do you really really need that speed and range ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes I do. But I can reduce slightly my expectations but not to legal e-bikes restrictions. :)
I would like to keep the range - 40 miles/20 mph.

I want to and can pedal (I have a road bike and will still use it) so the e-kit will not be occupied 100% all the time.:) That is why I think I can have that range.

Can you link any offers from Ebay/any other shop?
 

minexplorer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2017
516
91
53
Four Lanes,Cornwall
Yes I do. But I can reduce slightly my expectations but not to legal e-bikes restrictions. :)
I would like to keep the range - 40 miles/20 mph.

I want to and can pedal (I have a road bike and will still use it) so the e-kit will not be occupied 100% all the time.:) That is why I think I can have that range.

Can you link any offers from Ebay/any other shop?
Just buy a bbshd kit and a big 52v triangle battery.Say 24 Ah .This will give u all u want. Check out electron cycles site for a start. Unfortunately the coupling of 30mph with 40mile range will cost ,but u will never need anything else again...Or want.
 
Last edited:

tobo43

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 6, 2018
9
0
42
As I said above I can reduce my expectations slightly. :)

Electron cycles displays "out of stock" for all sets I want to see - similar with woosh. This website is confusing (low stock items without price?).

The electron kits are expensive (I planned to spend 600-700 gbp for all with with reduced speed/range expectations) - do you know any other online shop with cheaper parts/kits that I can buy?

Thank you for all feedback :)
 

wheeliepete

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 28, 2016
2,047
752
58
Devon
These kits are very popular and good value, hence most are out of stock atm. This one they have in stock.

https://www.yosepower.com/en/product/Hub-Motor-36V350W-26"-Rear-Motor-with-Cassette-Bicycle-E-Bike-Hub-Conversion-Kit-Silver-DIY-E-bike-LCD-Display-131.html

You are going to need a min. 17.5 amp battery to have any chance of getting the range you want, esp. in hilly terain. That is about the capacity limit for a cased, frame mounted battery, after that you are looking at triangle packs mounted in a bag and they start getting pricey for a decent celled one. This guy has a good reputation and builds quality packs

https://ebikebatteries.co.uk/product-category/ebike-battery-pack/tiger-shark/36v/
 

tobo43

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 6, 2018
9
0
42
If I buy a kit from one supplier and a battery from another are they plug and play made? Or the connectors/plugs etc are not "standard" and I have to modify them?

All the linked shops don't have stuff in stock :) Hard to believe - want to buy, but I can't.
 
Last edited:

1boris

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 10, 2013
343
57
that notice is applicable to all CD kits because there is a danger of overheating the motor. When you derestrict a CD kit, you can hit 24mph and more at the push of a button.. At that speed, the CD motor works at 100% its ability, if you maintain that regime for a while, the motor will overheat and shorten its life expectancy.
We will be selling from next month the 48V Tongsheng TSDZ2 which is more powerful than Bafang BBS01B that we currently sell. The notice is applicable to the TSDZ2 too, but the risk is reduced if you don't fit the throttle. The TSDZ2 has a torque sensor, so instinctively, you would be riding in the right gear all the time. If you fit the throttle to the TSDZ2, the guarantee will exclude the blue cog. This is a fairly inexpensive part to replace. The main thing is we try to warn you of the potential dangers to your motor.
Hub kits don't suffer the same way, if you go faster than 18mph, the motor takes less and less power, there is no real harm to the motor core, only to the built--in gearbox, a relatively inexpensive part to replace if it's worn out.
Getting back to the thread, the best torque motor in geared hub kits is the 48V SWX02. We only have 26" or 700C. If your bike has 650B, 700C can be used. Also, you will need to get a Sunrace freewheel to match your current gears, the 48V kit is threaded for screw on freewheels. If you have any questions, please email support@wooshbikes.co.uk

All the best,

Tony

Hi Tony, I am still considering the swx02 48v 250w kit.But I cant decide between the 26" and the 700cc wheel.Have you tried both versions?
Does they have the same no load speed.and is there any noticible torque difference or motor heat difference beteeen the two ?
 

wheeliepete

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 28, 2016
2,047
752
58
Devon
You will only have to worry about the battery connection, 2 wires that you can solder/crimp together.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
16,904
14,776
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Hi Tony, I am still considering the swx02 48v 250w kit.But I cant decide between the 26" and the 700cc wheel.Have you tried both versions?
Does they have the same no load speed.and is there any noticible torque difference or motor heat difference beteeen the two ?
yes, little difference between the two, the 700C is a little faster.
If you have the choice, 700C is better.
 

minexplorer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2017
516
91
53
Four Lanes,Cornwall
As I said above I can reduce my expectations slightly. :)

Electron cycles displays "out of stock" for all sets I want to see - similar with woosh. This website is confusing (low stock items without price?).

The electron kits are expensive (I planned to spend 600-700 gbp for all with with reduced speed/range expectations) - do you know any other online shop with cheaper parts/kits that I can buy?

Thank you for all feedback :)
As I said above I can reduce my expectations slightly. :)

Electron cycles displays "out of stock" for all sets I want to see - similar with woosh. This website is confusing (low stock items without price?).

The electron kits are expensive (I planned to spend 600-700 gbp for all with with reduced speed/range expectations) - do you know any other online shop with cheaper parts/kits that I can buy?

Thank you for all feedback :)
 

minexplorer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2017
516
91
53
Four Lanes,Cornwall
Try a bbs01 350w tobo.you can program to max the settings so a steady 20mph can be achieved.for battery u can get 70 cells in the shark packs. I have a 14s5p 52v one = 70 cells.for the 36volt one u wld need ,u can get a 10s7p made of Samsung 3500mah Ga cells thats 24.5Ah.tons of range. In a 7p config this will give a drain of under 3 amps per parrallel at full 18 amp output.so well under their 5amp continous rating.so great low battery stress.
 

tobo43

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 6, 2018
9
0
42
I bought a kit and a custom built battery. A new crank, freewheel 9sp.

What's left are: a shifter, a battery bag and cables for my hydro brakes- I want to use my brakes.
Does anybody use any kit for hydraulic brakes?