e scooters - a menace?

UrbanPuma

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 11, 2007
427
32
I saw my first e-scooter in Carmarthen the other day. I'd say the guy riding it was 40-50, he was dressed in shorts, tee shirt and sandals and wearing a helmet (so that's alright then). He was on the road and certainly doing more than 15mph, uphill. No number plate didn't spot any lights or bell/horn.
I don't understand how retailers (especially Halfrauds) are allowed to sell on the (nod nod wink wink) premise that it's for private land use only. It's so blatant.
The government have allowed and created this confusion throught their own muddled thinking.
If it's a motor vehicle then it should have plates, tax, insurance etc. And therefore should not be on the bloody pavement.
If it's not then where does it fall? It has no pedals, so is not an e-bike. It's not a an invalid carriage or it would have to be restricted to 4mph (pavement) or 8mph (road).
This thing of them being illegal unless it's a hired one is just plain crazy, bought about, I suspect, by commercial lobbying from American business concerns.
Hired eScooters are insured, that's the reason they are legal.
 

Terry777

Pedelecer
Jul 22, 2021
27
6
Edinburgh
The UK Gov are a complete joke!

They are gonna charge you and take your ebike if they catch you going 20mph up a hill, yet if they catch you going 30 mph on an analogue bike coming down the other side of the same hill you’re good and all they can do is stand and gawp!

Only in the good old UK folks! I’m 100% serious! Lol
 

sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
2,737
2,124
  • Agree
Reactions: flecc

georgehenry

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2015
1,148
1,006
Surrey
And remember The Police seem to be completely disinterested in Ebikes whatever speed they are doing up or downhill......at the moment.....
 
  • Agree
Reactions: snafu

AndyBike

Pedelecer
Nov 8, 2020
186
88
It's not the scooter, its the operator. Same goes for all vehicles.

Interesting the number of replies about the legality considering the number of posts and replies about people wanting to increase the speed of their electric bike beyond the legal limits by adapting or reworking the sensor or software.

Double standards ? :rolleyes:
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,354
27,051
The UK Gov are a complete joke!

They are gonna charge you and take your ebike if they catch you going 20mph up a hill, yet if they catch you going 30 mph on an analogue bike coming down the other side of the same hill you’re good and all they can do is stand and gawp!

Only in the good old UK folks! I’m 100% serious! Lol
Sorry Terry, but some corrections. Ours is not UK law, only the law of Great Britain, since Northern Ireland have all transport matters devolved so make their own law at Stormont.

And the police don't catch you going 20 mph uphill, they catch you using your motor to do it for you, so that's very different from your "analogue" bike going 30 mph downhill. Unassisted bicycles aren't motor vehicles, overpowered ones are so are subject to motor vehicle law.

And the law we have for pedelecs is almost a world standard. It applies here in GB, in all the EU's 27 countries, in all EEC countries, in Turkey, China, Japan, Australia and a few others very closely following it like New Zealand.

It's mainly only different in the Americas and believe me, you wouldn't want US law on them.
.
 

StuartsProjects

Pedelecer
May 9, 2021
234
121
yet if they catch you going 30 mph on an analogue bike coming down the other side of the same hill you’re good and all they can do is stand and gawp!
Well indeed there are no general 'speed' limits for non-electric cycles, which used not such an issue as going over 30mph on the flat is not for the many. I was once stopped for going fast (around 35mph) on the flat by the men in blue, but there was nothing they could do apart from 'advise' me to go slower.

Somewhat of a different issue these days though, the speed limit for vehicles on that particular bit of road was recently dropped to 20mph, which most cyclists can exceed on the flat so its now a bit more of an anomoly.
 

Terry777

Pedelecer
Jul 22, 2021
27
6
Edinburgh
Sorry Terry, but some corrections. Ours is not UK law, only the law of Great Britain, since Northern Ireland have all transport matters devolved so make their own law at Stormont.

And the police don't catch you going 20 mph uphill, they catch you using your motor to do it for you, so that's very different from your "analogue" bike going 30 mph downhill. Unassisted bicycles aren't motor vehicles, overpowered ones are so are subject to motor vehicle law.

And the law we have for pedelecs is almost a world standard. It applies here in GB, in all the EU's 27 countries, in all EEC countries, in Turkey, China, Japan, Australia and a few others very closely following it like New Zealand.

It's mainly only different in the Americas and believe me, you wouldn't want US law on them.
.
That’s mostly my point. You’re in trouble for “using the motor” to get to 20mph, yet you can freewheel to 30mph with no motor and it’s fine. Most regular cyclists can get past 20mph easy on the flat with no motor. Sounds a bit backwards to me….

They’ll be trying to charge you for going downhill next… a “flat or uphill only” policy!
 

StuartsProjects

Pedelecer
May 9, 2021
234
121
That’s mostly my point. You’re in trouble for “using the motor” to get to 20mph, yet you can freewheel to 30mph with no motor and it’s fine.
The obvious solution to that anomoly is for the speed limit on an eBike to be 15.5mph whether under power or without, much less confusion then.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,354
27,051
That’s mostly my point. You’re in trouble for “using the motor” to get to 20mph, yet you can freewheel to 30mph with no motor and it’s fine. Most regular cyclists can get past 20mph easy on the flat with no motor. Sounds a bit backwards to me….
We should limit bicycles to 15.5mph too because….. eh …..eh…. I dunno… just because… it’ll be easy to remember?
You are missing the point since you fail to understand the reason for pedelec law being in place:

Authorities around the world have long wanted people to cycle more and drive less, but they recognise that not everyone can do that due to such things as steep hills, limited physical ability and increasing age. So they provide some limited electric power to help. The name for that is Electric Assist, note they are not electric bikes, they are electric assist bicycles and the law's name is EAPC Regulations (Electric Assist Pedal Cycles).

As you can see, this is nothing to do with speed, it's making up for lack of physical ability.

But to have them remain as bicycles in law their power and speed has to be limited since the riders are untested, they are not insured and also untraceable with no number plates.

So a typical maximum cycling speed has been chosen, which happens to be 25 kph / 15.5 mph.

Now before you start jumping up and down and protesting it's much faster, no it is not. For recent historic reasons the few British who still cycle are a barmy lot, putting in huge effort to cycle at 20 mph or even more, but the rest of the world is far more sensible. Go to the major cycling nations where huge numbers cycle, like The Netherlands, Denmark, Germany, Africa, India, China and most of the Orient and you'll see how slowly they cycle. 10 mph, plus or minus 3 mph is typical,

Since I've been around a very long time I well remember when we Brits also cycled like that back in the 1940s and '50s. But we became a lazy lot and abandoned bikes in favour of mopeds and cars so cycling here all but disappeared, only kids still doing it until their parents got so scared of traffic they even stopped them cycling too.

So as a nation we forgot how to ride bikes for ordinary journeys as transport, until the mountain bike was invented and started to be popular around the mid 1980s. But that of course was sporting in nature, as were those who were riding them, so a new way of riding with more effort became established.

And that is how we arrived at where we are, almost alone in the world in cycling at speeds cyclists here consider normal but which are really abnormal everywhere else.

Of course we could make our own law allowing 20 mph or more assistance, but that would mean everything that mopeds suffer, registration, number plate, insurance, L plates, CBT, a driving licence.

Welcome to the real world where faster assistance can never be legalised without the above bureaucracy.
.
 

Poolepete

Pedelecer
Aug 14, 2018
90
89
52
Poole
I feel there is a place for e scooters, but there needs to be strict rules in place. If I was dictator, all riders to have at least a provisional licence, insurance, and a circa 12mph speed limit. The recent accidents have shown why such regulations need to be in place.

Police need to start enforcing the rules on these things now, as most riders feel immune on them. I recently saw one lad, who appeared about the same age as my son at 12, carving around people on the pavement and then shot straight across the main road without looking. One fop haired rear end of a chap in his forties, was riding down a hill on the wrong side of the road in an enclosed cycle lane.

Basically e scooters are here to stay. They need legislatiion, and the police will need to enforce the rules rigorously.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: flecc

StuartsProjects

Pedelecer
May 9, 2021
234
121
I feel there is a place for e scooters, but there needs to be strict rules in place.
Personally I would love to see eScooters legalised, but do you really think the 'strict' rules would be followed ?

I for one would automatically assume the 'strict' rules would be completly ignored by the vast majority. This is should not be a surprise, its the common UK culture these days, rules are for other people to observe.

There are 'strict' rules for eBikes, so how many people do you think actually follow them ?
 
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Reactions: flecc

Poolepete

Pedelecer
Aug 14, 2018
90
89
52
Poole
Personally I would love to see eScooters legalised, but do you really think the 'strict' rules would be followed ?

I for one would automatically assume the 'strict' rules would be completly ignored by the vast majority. This is should not be a surprise, its the common UK culture these days, rules are for other people to observe.

There are 'strict' rules for eBikes, so how many people do you think actually follow them ?
You are right of course. Just look at the number of illegal users now, with precious little enforcement. That's why I used "if I were dictator"...