Evolution of the Electric Bike?

[Steven]

Check this link out can't wait for it to come out.
Neodymics Cyclemotor Electric Bike Conversion Kit

 

[Miles]

Looks like it was designed by a laboratory technician

 

[nigel]

nigel

Hmmm
it looks a bit baulky also it looks like it belongs to a motorcycle how ever its good to see fresh thinking

 

[Ian]

It reminds me of a forklift truck. It looks like charging those 4 power tool batteries could be a lot of hassle compared to what we're used to.

The cyclemotor name has been used before.

 

[flecc]

Absolutely not!

Using 1 HP is just brute force, not good design, and that's because it's direct drive which is definitely not the best way of making a hub motor for bikes.

Add to that the very heavy large batteries needed for that motor size and you've got something that would make an old Powabyke seem a lightweight.

Just another in the constant stream of very bad designs that the USA produces for the e-bike market. I cant even think of one really good one, the Currie and BionX being the nearest to that, but both with deficiencies and from unfinished GM and Chrysler research years ago.
.

 

[kraeuterbutter]

just for the batteries:

@flecc:
what are "very heavy batteries" in your eyes ?

the batts he has mounted are
36V (nominal in real is 33V)
9,2Ah
weight should be around 4 - 4,5kg

its one of the few bikes that use real good batteries so
batteries where you can expect many years of use and very high cycle-rates (over 1000cycles in such a bike for sure, even when you run them down from 33volt to 20Volt or 15Volt each time of use)


using 4packs of the Dewalt-kits seems to be easy for the designer of this conversion kit,
but it is also some nonsense:

1.) you need 4 chargers, or you need to charge them one by one
2.) each pack carries his own balancer with it
--> when you remove this you can safe ~300g for each pack

balancing is not realy needed for that cells.. if you want to be on the safe side, do it maybe every 30th charging process
so: the balancer-unit should be placed with the charger in your garage and not in the bike were you have to carry it around with you

 

[faphillips]

DeWalt 36v Batteries on cyclemotor

I noticed from the cyclemotor video that the DeWalt 36v 2.2 ah batteries slide in to what looks like a DeWalt mounting system. I am very interested in using this battery on a Nano Brompton as I believe it will give me a range of c 7 miles at significant weight saving over the standard 7ah (2.7kg) battery and the bag that is needed to carry it.

The problem that I foresee is how to mount the battery in a reliable "slide in - slide off" configuration that the battery was intended for, to enable easy charging.

I have considered buying a complete powertool (the Impact Wrench looks best) and then cutting the powertool casing and mounting it to the Brompton front luggage frame. You can get 2 batteries, a charger and the powertool for c £299 inc VAT. DeWalt claim 2,000 charging cycles for these batteries.

Has anyone tried such a conversion? Is there a better way of achieving the same thing?

faphillips

 

[flecc]

just for the batteries:

@flecc:
what are "very heavy batteries" in your eyes ?

the batts he has mounted are
36V (nominal in real is 33V)
9,2Ah
weight should be around 4 - 4,5kg

My comment as in the context of the mounting kraeuterbutter, having heavy batteries incorporated in the suspension system in that way is simply ridiculous, and much lighter battery weight would be necessary to ensure safe bike handling. Something like that might work with the Nano motor and a very small LiFePO4 battery, but as it stands that's one of the daftest designs I've ever seen.
.

 

[Leonardo]

I'm interested in faphillips's question as well. No problem in using the 33V Dewalt instead of regular 36V batteries with the Nano-Motor?

Concerning the mounting I've seen on brompton talks that someone uses the Bosch battery inside a pocket of the cloth pannier.

Did you see this youtube video of a Crystalyte 408 using a "modular" Dewalt batteries set?

 

[faphillips]

re leonardo's point about the Bosch battery 'in a bag'

I read that Tony Castles (He of the Nano motor) uses a 2 Ah battery directly mounted on the luggage block of the Brompton. From the pictures it looks like the Bosch powertool battery which is 36v and 2 Ah. The standard way of carrying the Nano-Brompton battery is in one of the variety of Brompton bags that mount on the front luggage block.

I was thinking of using the small Brompton luggage frame, cutting off most of the frame and mounting the DeWalt battery in the bottom half of a DeWalt power tool (bulk of the powertool removed) permanently fixed to the frame. The frame then connects to the terminals on the luggage block when it is fitted and disconnects when you lift the bag off.

 

[coops]

Leonardo & faphillips

You might find out more about dissecting Dewalt etc powertools batteries on the endless-sphere ebike forums, where many members seem to routinely do this, usually to build quite high voltage & capacity Li batteries: common proprietary Li battery names used there include 'emoli' and 'A123'.

As for use with a brompton, Tony Castles' nanomotor site has pictures of his brompton fitted with 36V 2Ah Bosch powertool battery (still in original casing & less than 1kg), good for 5 miles or so. Its probably best to ask him whether the 33V battery would also work .

I keep toying with the idea of testing these batteries myself, just to see how well they perform & last - most useful would be their light weight & fast charging (less than 30 mins is possible I believe). Could be a costly experiment though... .

Stuart.

 

[faphillips]

coops

I cant find the picture of Tony Castles bike with the Bosch battery. Could you post a link to it please.

You are correct in saying that there is a lot of comment across the web on dissecting DeWalt and simialr batteries. Most of these people are doing this as a cheap source of cells. I want to use the battery as it is and to have the same mounting system as it would have had in the powertool that the battery was intended for.

faphillips

 

[coops]

hi faphillips

Our posts crossed earlier, so I didn't see that we'd posted the same information re Bosch battery pack.

Unfortunately the nano site appears to have been revamped somewhat and I can no longer find those pictures either . It may have been a PDF file I think, but either way I'm sure Tony would be happy to help you out if you contact him .

Stuart.

 

[flecc]

Yes, much of the useful content on the Tony Castles Nano site has disappeared, and I think might have been due to development changes. Unfortunately the motor technical information also went with the changes.
.

 

[Ian]

I keep toying with the idea of testing these batteries myself, just to see how well they perform & last - most useful would be their light weight & fast charging

Me too Stuart, the DeWalt 2.2Ah battery at 1.1 Kg would make a most useful short range battery if it could be used as supplied, but the Torq won't run satisfactorily at 33V so it is necessary to add at least one extra cell which means buying another battery to cannibalise, then the charger probably won't work....

For anything other than a lightweight low capacity battery the DeWalt batteries don't appear to have that much to offer, the capacity/weight ratio of 66Wh/Kg is not that much better than the Ezee NiMh at 59Wh/Kg. By comparison the Ezee Li-Mg battery works out at 82Wh/Kg, at least in theory and when brand new.

The best price I've seen the DeWalt batteries at is about £70 which I'd willingly pay if it could be used straight out of the box, but to cannibalise 5 to make a battery of similar capacity to the Ezee battery would be a lot more expensive than the standard item, fine if long life could be guaranteed, but whatever warranty the battery would normally have would obviously not apply in this application.

Perhaps if the Bosch battery really is 36V......

 

[BossBob]

but as it stands that's one of the daftest designs I've ever seen.
.

And that is one of the most polite appraisals I have ever read !!!

How does that old cliche go?
If it looks right, it probably is

And, ......

 

[flecc]

How does that old cliche go?
If it looks right, it probably is

And, ......

Yes, that's the old engineers adage Bob, and it so often is true.

Much of what is thought to be art in design is just the outcome of a good engineer's work.

And there's an equivalent, "if it sounds right - - - -", as the stirring sound of a steam locomotive testifies.
.

 

[coops]

Hi Ian

Yes, I think somehow I'll be sticking with NiMH for the time being, until something else purpose-built and more cost-effective, lithium or otherwise, comes along....

In other words, I suppose, "If it ain't broke... don't fix it!"

Stuart.

 

[Leonardo]

Thank you for the link Stuart. But I don't want to do any dissecting... Just wondering if there could be a lighter and possibly cheaper battery for short journeys with a Nano-Brompton: something ready-made though . I know my limits.

A small thumbnail of Castles's power tool system can be seen in the Google cache... Unfortunately I just linked to the images in that post.

 

[coops]

I prefer my batteries ready-made too Leonardo! However, I'd like to think that even I ought to be able to fit & connect a battery of the correct voltage to an ebike (I hope! ) without too much difficulty. Trouble with the Li powertools batteries is some '36V' ones seem to be only 33V or so - odd!

Thanks for that thumbnail image - thats the same powertool battery I recollect seeing on the nano site previously faphillips, Bosch 36V 2Ah as already said, with about 5 miles range and les than 1kg. Prices are still excessive though for such low range batteries, I'd say.

Stuart.