Haibike FLYON bikes with TQ motor

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
8,214
101
#2

Streethawk

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 12, 2011
633
7
#3
48v system, I expect more and more will go 48v over the coming years. 120nm should be very nice for those technical climbs where you need to pop the bike over obstacles. However I'd be concerned that the extra torque over the 36v systems will mean the bigger battery still only gives a similar range to 500wh on 36v.

One thing I really like about the TQ is the apparent heat-sink on the motor sides. It looks good and should keep the motor running significantly cooler than those with plastic casings.
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
6,976
170
The European Union
#4
the tq is a race class motor and with no speed limit and max rpm it can do 75kph plus what you can add if you got the gears so 50mph.
That speed (75 km/h) would require 52:11 at a cadence of 120 with 27.5" wheels and a 2.35" tyre. Haven't seen many 52 tooth chainwheels on eMTBs tbh... ;)
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
6,976
170
The European Union
#6
"The chainring is available with 38 teeth for eMTBs and 42 teeth for touring bikes and is mounted to the drive shaft via direct mount."

So pedalling like a maniac for a short burst you could probably reach 60 km/h but at my steady 95 cadence 45 km/h. Notice how that is exactly s-pedelec legal top speed?
 

EddiePJ

Esteemed Pedelecer
#8
I expect 120nm should be very nice for those technical climbs where you need to pop the bike over obstacles.
.
Why would anyone need 120Nm of torque to pop the bike over obstacles?
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
8,214
101
#9
Why would anyone need 120Nm of torque to pop the bike over obstacles?
so you can leave skid marks all over the rocks wheel spining :D
 

EddiePJ

Esteemed Pedelecer
#10
so you can leave skid marks all over the rocks wheel spining :D
Or spit the rider off when they loose control.

My take on the bike is as follows.

The fins on either side of the drive unit are going to be a magnet for mud to collect.
The torque is going to shorten drivetrain components.
In generalisation, the higher the torque, the greater the battery consumption.
The battery capacity still isn't enough for a lengthy ride, especially with the extra torque, so either a spare will be required, or unwanted mid ride down time whilst charging.
Lastly, and on a personal level, it just looks plain ugly.
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
8,214
101
#11
one thing i dont like is its nose and the bright idea to put a charging port next to it.

in the rain that will just suck it all in straight down the battery tube and over the motor if it can get that far.
 

EddiePJ

Esteemed Pedelecer
#12
Why have they made some kind of honeycomb designer head tube, then shuved cables through it? :rolleyes:

It gets worse! o_O
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
8,214
101
#13
Why have they made some kind of honeycomb designer head tube, then shuved cables through it? :rolleyes:

It gets worse! o_O
there cooling vents for the battery so if they need that at 15mph @120nm then things are going to get toasty with the speed limit removed.

now given that motor is the same as the m1 and could do 75kph with a 1000w+ motor then it will need cooling.

be interesting to see how it could handle a non stop climb and using max 120nm non stop might push the temps over the limit with lack of air flow.

it looks like this with the cover removed.
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
6,976
170
The European Union
#14
Quick! Put the cover back on! Please...
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
6,124
125
55
West Sx RH
#15
:rolleyes: Radiator vents on a headset what ever next.
 

EddiePJ

Esteemed Pedelecer
#17
The more that I look at this bike, the more that I consider it to be a complete disaster.


To begin the list, I shall start at the front end.


Integrated lights whilst desirable on a road bike, are a complete waste of time on an off road bike, and in the case of the light as fitted to this bike, it along with the display, prevent any change of stem set up should it be required for rider comfort or set up. In the case of the rear lights, one wet and muddy ride, will see those rendered useless, and if the marks on my seat stays are anything to go by, broken as well. It should also be noted that to be marketed in the UK with lights fitted, they would surely need to be BS approved, and that isn't likely to happen.


The built in widescreen TV size consol, is again another pointless addition to an eMTB. It's position prevents stem replacement, and out on ride adjustments. Less is more in respect of consoles, especially when it comes to damage protection.


The honey comb vents on the headstock to keep the battery cool, indicate that there is a design flaw in that the battery must be susceptible to overheating. One wet muddy ride would see these vents, blocked, and render any cooling useless. Given that heat build up is generated at its greatest during long climbs, the vents are going to be ineffective, as speed would be required to make them work. Also why would anyone in their right mind, design an element of a bike, that allows water and mud to enter the frame in such a way.

Finally on the subject of the vents, it is a pretty poor attention to detail to run the cables through them.


The battery and motor. No one other than someone trying to substitute a motorcycle in favour of a pedelec, needs the quoted 120nm or torque. This is what final drive gearing is for.

More torque will also drain the battery significantly faster, and in reality, the range will probably be no more that the current offerings from other manufacturers.

More torque will also place more strain and drivetrain components, so these will either need to be manufactured specifically for use, or owners will just be replacing and or braking things sooner.

The fins on either side of the motor, are undoubtedly going to be a magnet for dirt and crud, and who knows where it could all end going to. One thing is certain, it won't end well, and at the minimum, will make cleaning a complete nightmare.

I also don't buy into the fast charging either. For longevity, I would have thought that a slow charge is always going to be better, and who wants to interrupt a ride with a 50 minute break, and where exactly. Cafe owners etc are soon going to get fed up with offering free charging in exchange for one cup of coffee and cake.


Switching to the rear suspension, what on earth is that main pivot point all about. Designing it as an integrated section as they have, when compressed, crud and muck is going to enter from below, so opening the joint, and progressively altering the set up and leading to wear. I'd love to know how they suggest that anyone clean and maintain the area.

The rear sensor is not only going to be yet another potential trap for debris etc, it also prevents anyone from changing out to their own wheel set. Why would anyone want a bike that they couldn't potentially swap wheel sets, and be tied to the bike manufacturer if replacement is ever required.

The rear lights have already been covered.

No bike is ever going to be perfect and all have their own design issues or compromises, but in the case of this bike, I can't think of one good thing to say about. Straight into room 101 as far as I'm concerned, along whoever gave the go ahead for it.


More to add when I get a better chance to sit down and study the bike further.
 
Last edited:

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
8,214
101
#18

Streethawk

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 12, 2011
633
7
#20
Why would anyone need 120Nm of torque to pop the bike over obstacles?
Need? Who said anything about needing it? I don't need 6" of suspension travel but I can go faster and have more fun with it. I don't need a 200mm disc brake, I rode many years on V brakes in the 90's. Hell I don't even need an eBike, I have a car and a motorbike. But I want one, with as much torque as possible.
 

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