Help! Haibike sduro hard 7

peter chapman

Finding my (electric) wheels
Aug 16, 2015
18
1
47
Hi everyone, Im looking for some help and advice, I have a 2021 haibike sduro hard 7 it's three months old and done 750 miles, the other day whilst riding on a busy road the chain snapped. I could not go and retrieve the chain as it was too dangerous, so I need to replace the chain. Can anyone tell me how many links I need and is it wasted money getting an ebike specific chain?. Ps bike is standard and I live in the flatlands of Norfolk my commute is solely roads and cycle paths so the bike has had no abuse.
 

philwinfieldATgmail.com

Finding my (electric) wheels
Oct 17, 2020
10
0
I can't help but funny to say I had the same bike and my chain went too! I think it's when in the wrong gear and have full power on? I retrieved and bought a few links for a fiver (what a rip off)
 

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
1,852
457
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Hi everyone, Im looking for some help and advice, I have a 2021 haibike sduro hard 7 it's three months old and done 750 miles, the other day whilst riding on a busy road the chain snapped. I could not go and retrieve the chain as it was too dangerous, so I need to replace the chain. Can anyone tell me how many links I need and is it wasted money getting an ebike specific chain?. Ps bike is standard and I live in the flatlands of Norfolk my commute is solely roads and cycle paths so the bike has had no abuse.
Most mid motor e-bikes have a problem, as ALL the motor torque, and ALL the human Torque, pass through the same chain, putting a lot of stress on it. Only top quality chains will last better.
Most chains were originally designed for normal push bikes, not e-bikes.
Also, when the chain breaks, and you are not carrying a spare (let alone if its a black night! and you have no tools or lighting needed), you have one choice - PUSH!
Mid motor bikes are prone to motor problems generally and require really good maintenance to achieve a long working life. Some replacement motors are around 1,000 UK Pounds, just to get replaced out of guarantee, once the hourly rates are applied for the work! Also, the motor is not sold on the open market by the manufacturer!
Whereas ALL front and rear wheel hub motors have NO motor torque passing through the chain, only the human torque, just like a normal bike, but assisted by the motor, reducing even the human torque to generally a lower level than a normal bike.....when seen over time.....
And even if the chain breaks, and you do not have the lust/spare parts/a good light/tools at night, most of these types of bike will let you drive home chain less (removed from bike), provided that the battery has enough energy left.
Some of them do require that you still pedal, to activate a sensor, allowing the motor to run!
I am told (no personal experience!) that there are some high end e-bikes with hub motors, that still do not allow the motor to drive you home, when the chain gets broken, due to certain electronic designs that measure the human input. No human input, no motor help......UGH!!
A further good point is that e-bikes with hub motors are mostly far cheaper to buy, far cheaper to maintain and cheaper and easier to repair......
Many Hub Motor bikers do all their own repair and maintenance, as its not that much more complicated than a normal bike.
I have had two rear hub bikes, and I have never even seen the insides of either motor, in around 11 years of e-biking.....completely no need.....
The mid motor fraternity generally speaking, simply hate me pointing this all out online!!! Their problem, not mine......as it always is!!
best wishes
Andy
 
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guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
1,436
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Mid motor bikes are prone to motor problems generally and require really good maintenance to achieve a long working life. Some replacement motors are around 1,000 UK Pounds, just to get replaced out of guarantee, once the hourly rates are applied for the work! Also, the motor is not sold on the open market by the manufacturer!
Greenbikekit.com sell bare BBS01b motors.
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
11,782
4,838
Most mid motor e-bikes have a problem, as ALL the motor torque, and ALL the human Torque, pass through the same chain, putting a lot of stress on it. Only top quality chains will last better.
Most chains were originally designed for normal push bikes, not e-bikes.
Also, when the chain breaks, and you are not carrying a spare (let alone if its a black night! and you have no tools or lighting needed), you have one choice - PUSH!
Mid motor bikes are prone to motor problems generally and require really good maintenance to achieve a long working life. Some replacement motors are around 1,000 UK Pounds, just to get replaced out of guarantee, once the hourly rates are applied for the work! Also, the motor is not sold on the open market by the manufacturer!
Whereas ALL front and rear wheel hub motors have NO motor torque passing through the chain, only the human torque, just like a normal bike, but assisted by the motor, reducing even the human torque to generally a lower level than a normal bike.....when seen over time.....
And even if the chain breaks, and you do not have the lust/spare parts/a good light/tools at night, most of these types of bike will let you drive home chain less (removed from bike), provided that the battery has enough energy left.
Some of them do require that you still pedal, to activate a sensor, allowing the motor to run!
I am told (no personal experience!) that there are some high end e-bikes with hub motors, that still do not allow the motor to drive you home, when the chain gets broken, due to certain electronic designs that measure the human input. No human input, no motor help......UGH!!
A further good point is that e-bikes with hub motors are mostly far cheaper to buy, far cheaper to maintain and cheaper and easier to repair......
Many Hub Motor bikers do all their own repair and maintenance, as its not that much more complicated than a normal bike.
I have had two rear hub bikes, and I have never even seen the insides of either motor, in around 11 years of e-biking.....completely no need.....
The mid motor fraternity generally speaking, simply hate me pointing this all out online!!! Their problem, not mine......as it always is!!
best wishes
Andy
hub motors put all there Torque through the spokes and rim and will come loose esp with off road use it simply puts the strain on another part of the bike and they will snap esp off road use.

hub motors also can and have snapped the rear triangle with the Torque they can pump out and massive ones need custom steal frames like the stealth bomber type frames.

hub motors also dont work well on fs bikes and using one off road going down a black trail will only end one way with broken or loose spokes.

most hub motors use the qr system where my bike has 12mm axles front and rear because if you ride down black trails you need them to keep the wheels on!


race to win or crash trying :p
 
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guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
1,436
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hub motors put all there Torque through the spokes and rim and will come loose esp with off road use it simply puts the strain on another part of the bike and they will snap esp off road use.

hub motors also can and have snapped the rear triangle with the Torque they can pump out and massive ones need custom steal frames like the stealth bomber type frames.

hub motors also dont work well on fs bikes and using one off road going down a black trail will only end one way with broken or loose spokes.

most hub motors use the qr system where my bike has 12mm axles front and rear because if you ride down black trails you need them to keep the wheels on!


race to win or crash trying :p
I dig the Prodigy soundtrack! Reminds me of sperm racing to fertilise an egg:



...hope one of them got someone pregnant at the end.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
14,667
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West Sx RH
Built properly a hub motor is capable of off road riding, use good spokes and a good rim one should have no issue. I know this is true as I build all my wheels and use a hub for off road on forest tracks and extensively on long160km rides, I take in the rough N.Downs way and riding on the S.Downs. On the S.Downs I'm not talking just the SDW but also many varying off piste cycle ways/bridleways that a lot of folks don't use. High speed no but capable of 30mph no issue.
 
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soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
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anyone want to race next year ,i got spare motor woof!
 
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Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
1,852
457
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hub motors put all there Torque through the spokes and rim and will come loose esp with off road use it simply puts the strain on another part of the bike and they will snap esp off road use.

hub motors also can and have snapped the rear triangle with the Torque they can pump out and massive ones need custom steal frames like the stealth bomber type frames.

hub motors also dont work well on fs bikes and using one off road going down a black trail will only end one way with broken or loose spokes.

most hub motors use the qr system where my bike has 12mm axles front and rear because if you ride down black trails you need them to keep the wheels on!


race to win or crash trying :p
I would bet you are the owner of a mid motor e-bike, and you have probably never ever owned a hub motor bike.
Also I completely disagree with your assessment as well, with your "imagined" failures. Properly made frames do not snap as you describe under normal heavy usage.
Where I live and ride, a Brit would probably call it mountainous, we might say "hilly", but I have never ever had an axle snap, except on an old mountain bike I had about 20 years ago, after it was pushed over, falling on concrete (not up on the hills!), because a car driver simply could not drive. It cost me less than 5 UK Pounds to repair!
I also know quite a few e-bikers, and we chat from time to time, and the only ones seemingly getting bad and expensive problems are all mid motor units between 2 and 4 years of age. Most with less than what I would term "medium usage".
And the costs of some repairs (mostly Bosch!), some have had to have made, would have paid for BOTH of my rear hub bikes when I bought them, first one was secondhand the second one brand new!!!
On both my rear hub motored e-bikes, I have never had a spoke snap, or bend, or need replacement, or a frame break, in probably 30,000 Kms plus of riding in over 10 years. Rarely has a spoke even needed to be adjusted.....though I check them around once a month, just as I did with all the normal bikes, I previously owned....
Remember, a rear hub motor is direct drive to the rear wheel, the chain does not get "strained" in any way, and only the muscle power of the rider goes through the chain, and I need to change my chains at about 3-4 years, the latest bike still not, probably because I tend to use more motor as I get older.....
And as I mentioned before, nothing has gone wrong with either motor either, so I have yet to look inside one for any reason!
My running costs are usually around a new set of tyres per year, and two sets of brake pads a year.
A brake caliper that broke due to UV light on the plastic (cheapo) adjuster, I did replace, but I repaired it using Epoxy and stainless steel bolt, and washers, and put it back on the bike about 10 days later......
This first picture shows the way the adjuster was bleached and made porous by Sunlight (only on the front, as the rear brake is covered by the panniers, and even 4 years later, still looks like new!)
SAM_1466.JPG
The next is the epoxy and stainless parts used to replace the plastic adjuster, and is still OK (note to the epoxy "unbelievers" here!).
SAM_1469.JPG
Here is the part that I repaired from the "inside", all held very strongly with correctly applied Epoxy:-
SAM_1464.JPG

The outer part is the actual metal part of the original adjuster, that no metric nut fitted, sadly! So I simply removed the plastic part, and glued stainless steel parts in place, that I can adjust using an Allen key......Also filing the surface absolutely flat, to contact and adjust the brake pad correctly of course.
My cycling, over a great many years (more than I really care to remember), has cost me only very tiny amounts of money to support completely, as I can just about repair anything, but on my bikes, repairs are few and far between......
And at 75, in a 9 days time, I do not anticipate that to change much!!!
But, if you have truly experienced such failures & Breakages as you declared, please be so kind as to add the name and model of the e-bikes in question here, so that all our members are duly forewarned. Its the friendly thing to do.
regards
Andy
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
11,782
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anything with moving parts will fail bearings will wear out and things will come loose over time or just snap what you do not understand is you can not use a hub motor off road down hill tracks over jumps because it will fail!

and if you bother to search the forum you will find plenty more posts of broken hub motors and many more to come in the future as well.

i ride my bike hard you dont i ride my bike fast you dont i have every tool to service my bike and do it continually as if i dont bother it will fall to bits and the same with any mtb riding hard off road.


go try that and see how long your spokes last ;) and thats why my back wheel alone cost 500quid :p
 

GSV3MiaC

Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2020
188
118
Mid motor e-bikes definitely need a decent chain, or better yet a belt drive. Some manufacturers fit the cheapest chain China can produce, but the rest of the bike is likely no better. If you upgraded a bike yourself you probably should upgrade the chain too.

Hub vs mid motor is a religious argument, and nobody is going to change anyone's mind. It would be boring if everyone was the same..
 

georgehenry

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2015
1,148
1,007
Surrey
I have'nt read all the comments, but have both two rear hub drive bikes and a crank drive 2015 Haibike sduro hard seven with Yamaha motor and like them all.

My Haibike is a nine speed and I use normal KMC 9 speed chains and have found them to be excellent.

I did go through an acclimatisation period with my Haibike learning to adjust my riding style slightly to maximise the life of my transmission.

I learnt to back off/ pause my pedaling power delivery slightly when changing gears, not so necessary in the lower gears where the cogs have a lot of teeth but still a good idea to prolong cassette cogs and chain, but much more important in the high/highest gear where there are far fewer teeth, before reapplying pedal pressure. You don't need to stop pedaling just stop momentarily adding power while the gear changes. Like all new skills it takes a little time to get used to but then becomes second nature.

I would also be careful not to spray water without care where the cranks come out to avoid water ingress by washing into the motor which will cause bearing failure over time. But this does not mean you cannot ride the bike in the rain or through mud and puddles off road although I as much as possible go round them.
 

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
1,852
457
75
anything with moving parts will fail bearings will wear out and things will come loose over time or just snap what you do not understand is you can not use a hub motor off road down hill tracks over jumps because it will fail!
Some sooner than later it would seem!
Andy
and if you bother to search the forum you will find plenty more posts of broken hub motors and many more to come in the future as well.
I did just that, there are pitifully few cases of hub motors failing, and when one realises that hub motor e-bikes are about 75% of all e-bikes sold the last time I checked (I believe mainly due to the often massive price differences between hub & mid motors, and today possibly because they are generally known to also be simpler, and therefore less likely to fail!)
And if one wants to make a point, you should be searching them out for ME, not asking ME to prove myself wrong is a completely lost cause, and generally means that you yourself were unable to prove any point you wanted to make, or don't you realise that?
My checking showed minimal hub bike problems, as against mid motor bikes, plus the excessive prices charged,and by some manufacturers, not supply spares, even if the guarantee is still valid or not!
Andy
i ride my bike hard you dont i ride my bike fast you dont i have every tool to service my bike and do it continually as if i dont bother it will fall to bits and the same with any mtb riding hard off road.
My bike is sprung, front & rear, for comfort and because I have a bad back, which of course not only reduces the shocks to me and my spine, but also to the unsprung parts of my bike suspension, which of course reduces the likelihood of breaking anything, including the rider, very considerably as any engineer knows!
go try that and see how long your spokes last ;) and thats why my back wheel alone cost 500quid :p
Over a great many years I have learned to judge things far better than I did as a boy, so it would be most unlikely that I would ride down such a set of steps, or even find such a set anywhere near to where I ride, but pictures can be VERY deceptive and misleading, and I do happily ride down any normal steps, as I have very thick tyres which grip well, also because of a certain laziness in walking when I have two wheels with me!
Have a great day, but for me, you did not score any points, in fact you lost a lot of them......
Andy
[/QUOTE]
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
11,782
4,838
my 7 year old motor still works with a dongle it has never broken it has never had a problem bar 1 error code on a hot day.

i ride my bike going over 30 mph most days yet it still keeps going and now have a brand new cx motor with even more power with 75nm.

so i can keep going for many more years to come as can fully service every part of my bike and peter can sort the bearings.

go find a bike park in the uk that hires hub motor bikes for there trails you wont find any because they cant do of road jumps ect the wheel will fail.

id stick to the 3mph speed limit if i was you as you might brake something pmsl