Hall sensor anomaly, KT-LCD5 Info 03 error code - Help Please!!

[Swell6]

I have a 36v system built around a KT-LCD5 display, KT36SVPR-LCD controller and rear hub motor which doesn't seem to have any model number visible. All was working absolutely fine, except for one recent ride where the motor did cut out briefly and the 03 error code appeared, but disappeared after I powered off and back on. I did a ride in the south downs on Monday and everything was 100%, then on Tuesday started a ride - it started ok but after a few yards I got the Info 03 error code and no power from either throttle or PAS. Its been like that since then with no drive power at all. The display comes on ok, but the moment I use the throttle or PAS the error appears. What I've checked is:

• visual check of all the connections and all look fine, no evidence of water ingress at all
• I've checked continuity across the 6 wire hall connector and all are ok.
• checked the voltage from ground to the yellow, blue, green and white Hall sensor wires - all were about 5.10V
• voltage across the red was 4.58V
• the voltage didn't change for any when I spun the wheel, so not dropping to 0V
• I DIDN'T check continuity to the Julet connector as I don't know the pin confuguration - not sure if the voltage check means this isn't necessary...?

So I'm really not sure what's needed here. I get the feeling the motor is ok, it runs smoothly and quietly.
Could it be the controller?
It's weird that the hall voltages didn't drop to 0V when spinning the wheel.
Another weird thing is that the battery BMS seems to have a problem - it won't charge. I've taken the shrink wrap off and checked all the obvious continuities and all are fine. I have a spare equivalent BMS so will probably fit that. But its weird that this appeared at the same time - I can't really see how they're linked, unless the controller shorted something...?? Its chucking out 42V so the power output is ok.

 

[vfr400]

The motor halls have to switch for the motor to work. Were you turning the wheel backwards when you tested because the motor doesn't turn when you push it forwards?

There are a few potential causes of battery not charging starting with the 5 amp charge fuse. If that's not it, open the battery and check where the 42v from the charger gets to. Measure on the charger output jack, then plug it in to the battery and measure on the back of the socket, then where it attaches to the BMS.

 

[Swell6]

The motor halls have to switch for the motor to work. Were you turning the wheel backwards when you tested because the motor doesn't turn when you push it forwards?

There are a few potential causes of battery not charging starting with the 5 amp charge fuse. If that's not it, open the battery and check where the 42v from the charger gets to. Measure on the charger output jack, then plug it in to the battery and measure on the back of the socket, then where it attaches to the BMS.

I rechecked the voltages with the wheel turning forward and back and the voltage doesn't drop to 0v at any point. The yellow, green, blue & white wires all have a constant voltage of exactly 5.08v.
I did check the Julet continuity for the Hall sensor wires and all are fine.

• the output of the charger is 43v
• the battery output is currently 42.2v
• the voltage across the charge port is 41.8v (measured at the BMS)
• when I plug the charger in, the voltage across the charge port goes up to 43v (makes sense - again measured at the BMS) and the battery output remains the same
• the light on the charger remains green, doesn't change to orange to indicate it is charging
• I haven't taken any current measurements
• it was on charge overnight and the voltage indicator the next day showed it hadn't charged

Could this be a controller issue? Or even a display issue? Or motor maybe...?

 

[vfr400]

At 42.2v, it's fully charged and will switch off the charge port.

A KT controller has a time delay before the charge state updates. Ride your bike for a bit and watch it change to fully charged.

 

[Nealh]

If the 5v doesn't switch then it sounds like the halls may be faulty, slowly rotating the wheel rearwards by hand if no change then suspect for some reason they have failed.

The charger I would be inclined to adjust the voltage pot down to read correctly.

 

[vfr400]

The 03 code was probably because you didn't have your motor connector far enough in. Hall sensors can't go faulty, then fix themselves. Check your motor connector again just to make sure. It must be in all the way to the line, not just in tight.

 

[Swell6]

The 03 code was probably because you didn't have your motor connector far enough in. Hall sensors can't go faulty, then fix themselves. Check your motor connector again just to make sure. It must be in all the way to the line, not just in tight.

I've triple checked all the connections and all are fine, fully engaged, so I'm happy I've eliminated that from my enquiries - just getting the 03 code for some reason.

 

[Swell6]

At 42.2v, it's fully charged and will switch off the charge port.

A KT controller has a time delay before the charge state updates. Ride your bike for a bit and watch it change to fully charged.

I get your logic there. Its just that normally the display updates within a couple of seconds to show a full charge and I've had it switched on for probably about 5 minutes and its still not updating, which is why I assumed the battery had not charged. But if there's a system problem maybe its stuck in the state it was when I finished my last ride i.e. showing just one bar, which could mean that the battery and BMS are fine. I'll try draining the battery somehow and seeing if it goes into a charge state when partly discharged.

 

[Swell6]

If the 5v doesn't switch then it sounds like the halls may be faulty, slowly rotating the wheel rearwards by hand if no change then suspect for some reason they have failed.

The charger I would be inclined to adjust the voltage pot down to read correctly.

If they have failed it seems strange that they all failed at the same time - which is why I'm wondering if it might be a controller problem.

 

[vfr400]

I've triple checked all the connections and all are fine, fully engaged, so I'm happy I've eliminated that from my enquiries - just getting the 03 code for some reason.

All the way to the line or just fully engaged?

 

[vfr400]

If they have failed it seems strange that they all failed at the same time - which is why I'm wondering if it might be a controller problem.

It can't be a controller problem because the voltage is coming from the halls, not the controller. You're right to be suspicious. It's highly unlikely that they all failed together. I still think it's a measuring problem.

 

[Nealh]

Change the battery in the testing meter and check hall voltages again, this time only hand turning the wheel backwards. Testing Gnd to the three sensor wires of Yellow ,Green & Blue.
I agree that all three failing is unlikely but some thing is a miss with the halls whether in correct testing or failure.

 

[Swell6]

I've retested everything and the same issue is there. I was very careful to push the Julet connector all the way in. I also checked continuity from the phase wires to the Julet connector and all are fine.
I feel like I've tested as much as I can with the system as it is. If its not the controller that's causing the problem than it seems to me that the only other place to go would be inside the hub motor. Wondering if there could be a short somewhere maybe? Obviously I'd rather avoid this if possible so is there anything else I can check? Its also worth noting that the display is obviously not reading the correct battery voltage. Could it be that the system is in effect frozen because of the unresolved error?

 

[vfr400]

And turn the wheel slowly. Don't spin it.

There is a scenario where they could blow all at once, but it doesn't fit with you getting a temparary problem that fixed itself and other facts you have given.

 

[vfr400]

Let's get some facts because things don't add up.
When you short press the power button twice to show volts at the bottom of the LCD, how many volts does it show?
What is the actual battery voltage by measurement with a meter?
What happens when you switch on th LCD. Do amy anomalies show?
Do you still get 03 error? If so, what do you have to do to get it?

 

[Swell6]

Let's get some facts because things don't add up.
When you short press the power button twice to show volts at the bottom of the LCD, how many volts does it show?
What is the actual battery voltage by measurement with a meter?
What happens when you switch on th LCD. Do amy anomalies show?
Do you still get 03 error? If so, what do you have to do to get it?

The LCD shows 42v
The battery voltage measured by meter is 42.0v
The only anomaly when switching on the LCD is that the battery icon display shows one bar rather than 4 bars to indicate a full charge, and we know the battery has a full charge. This reflects the state of the battery at the end of my last ride.
I still get the 03 error. This appears either when I depress the thumb throttle or when I turn the pedals.

 

[Swell6]

And turn the wheel slowly. Don't spin it.

There is a scenario where they could blow all at once, but it doesn't fit with you getting a temparary problem that fixed itself and other facts you have given.

I get what you're saying - an intermittent problem could well be explained by a poor connection which eventually becomes bad producing the Hall anomaly. As far as I can tell all connections are good which is annoying as a poor connection is easily fixable. Just feeling that I now need to follow the problem into the motor itself as that's the only logical place left to go... unless I'm missing something.

 

[vfr400]

The battery display is normal. I often get that. Maybe you have to travel some distance before it updates. Probably, if you change your P5 setting to zero, it'll update immediately, then you can set P5 back to around 12. P5 affects the rate at which it updates. The higher the value, the more it lengthens the moving average calculation, which must have a base of distance.

That leaves, three hall sensors, which you say don't switch, and your 03 code confirms a hall sensor error. In that case, if we forget everything else you've said except that you've confirmed all connections are good, the logical conclusion is that you have a damaged motor cable that caused a short between a phase wire and either the 5v or ground hall wires. Did you drop or mishandle the bike just before your problems started?

Check the motor wire where it comes out of the axle to see if it's nicked, and you might as well check the rest of it as well.

 

[Swell6]

The battery display is normal. I often get that. Maybe you have to travel some distance before it updates. Probably, if you change your P5 setting to zero, it'll update immediately, then you can set P5 back to around 12. P5 affects the rate at which it updates. The higher the value, the more it lengthens the moving average calculation, which must have a base of distance.

That leaves, three hall sensors, which you say don't switch, and your 03 code confirms a hall sensor error. In that case, if we forget everything else you've said except that you've confirmed all connections are good, the logical conclusion is that you have a damaged motor cable that caused a short between a phase wire and either the 5v or ground hall wires. Did you drop or mishandle the bike just before your problems started?

Check the motor wire where it comes out of the axle to see if it's nicked, and you might as well check the rest of it as well.

I didn't drop the bike but I do ride it quite hard over rough ground, so if there were a point where the cable was abrading - maybe where it enters the axle like you suggest - then potentially that could steadily get worse and eventually short, which I imagine could well explain the anomaly. It does have a strain relief coil where it enters the axle, but that will only do so much. I'll check the cable at that point to see if there's any obvious wear.

 

[Swell6]

One other question, does anyone know why my Hall sensor has a white cable as well as the usual green, yellow, blue, black & red? The voltage at the white cable measures the same as for the green, blue & yellow. Is this just for another Hall sensor?