Hello all newbie here in S.E London needing some good honest sound advice

[haltny]

Hello all,

I am a complete newbie to this forum and electric bikes so i'd like to say hello. Years ago I knew someone who rode a pedelec but it was designed for a granny and weighed as much as a killer whale. Oh how times have changed. I hadn't given pedelecs much thought until recently when as usual I was sitting in crawling rush hour traffic on my way to work and saw someone on a pedelec zoom past me and every other miserable driver with a smug grin on his face. Time to rethink my travel arrangements!

So I've been looking at many options, I have tried a few, some I've liked, some not so much.

Originally I had my heart set on something stupidly expensive and snazzy a Haibike, but as I've done more research and learnt more I realise this is not the bike for me. I have tried a BH Emotion Neo Cross which I liked a lot, but I cannot bring myself to cough up over £2000. Today I tried a Whisper 905 just to see what it was like, which whilst I can see it is a good bike, I felt it lacked real grunt and was definitely not for me.

The other bike I've tried was a standard mountain bike with a BOSS super system from a cycle retailer in north London, I tried the 36v (£1500) and the 48v (£2000). I absolutely loved the 48v kit, it was a flying machine (although the shop made me very aware that the kit was not road legal and that I would use it entirely at my own risk) and after a test ride (of course on some local brownfield site not a road) I arrived back at the shop so knackered from pedaling that I almost collapsed! This was definitely the kit for me, I dropped the idea of buying a ready made bike and decided to get my Dahon Cadenza P18 converted, but then after the adrenalin had subsided (several days) I decided that £2000 was a bit rich for a kit.

This is where I need some good solid advice from the people in the know.

I have narrowed my selection down to a handful of kits;

The Xipi Commuter Cube Commuter Kube

The Eezee Kit eZee kit - The DIY conversion kit that electrifies your ride.

The Falco HX MT 250 kit Hx-MT-250-FS 11.5BB 20+ MPH (32+ KPH) (Torque Sensor) | Team Hybrid Ebikes Electric Bikes and Kits

and finally the Alien Aurora 350w kit or the insane Magic Pie 3 kit, however after speaking with Jim there I was informed the disk brake calipers on my bike are too wide so would rub against the motor (my bike is a Dahon Cadenza P18 full size folder with 26" wheels), so have ruled these kits out.

I have spoken to all three kit manufacturers still in the running and to be honest all three seem and sound like good kits, but I am not an expert and I would like to hear from people that either have these kits, know someone who's got one or who just knows about them and who can give me some good honest unbiased answers?

What I want from a kit is this:

Quality components, reliability, a kit with a bit of oomph capable of exceeding 20+ mph (I know not road legal!), a good trustworthy supplier who will give good support in the event of a fault/warranty claim, a kit that will last 2 years of commuting 22 miles a day (I can charge at work and at home so battery not so much of a big deal for me), a kit that doesn't weigh a tonne and could be pedaled easily on its own if the battery failed for any reason.

So there you have it, I would really appreciate any help on which is best kit or just any advice on them!

Thanks all

PS I have seen some GNG kits from the USA, are these any good they are very cheap!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

What I want from a kit is this:

Quality components, reliability, a kit with a bit of oomph capable of exceeding 20+ mph (I know not road legal!), a good trustworthy supplier who will give good support in the event of a fault/warranty claim, a kit that will last 2 years of commuting 22 miles a day (I can charge at work and at home so battery not so much of a big deal for me), a kit that doesn't weigh a tonne and could be pedaled easily on its own if the battery failed for any reason.

So there you have it, I would really appreciate any help on which is best kit or just any advice on them!

Thanks all

PS I have seen some GNG kits from the USA, are these any good they are very cheap!

Welcome.

The GNG is a DIY kit, so it doesn't fit with your criteria above. All the ones you've listed are from proper suppliers, so will do what they're supposed to. If I wanted the Alien one, I'd try and get an upgrade to a bigger battery unless they can confirm that they've got the latest high-discharge cells. Even then, 10aH won't take you far at 20 mph.

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi Haltny,

Welcome to the forum, it was good to talk to you earlier today.

You have come to a good place for advice and I hope you find what you are looking for.

As well as being the UK supplier of eZee, Cyclezee are also dealers for Ansmann, Falco and Heinzmann.

Regards,

 

[haltny]

Welcome.

The GNG is a DIY kit, so it doesn't fit with your criteria above. All the ones you've listed are from proper suppliers, so will do what they're supposed to. If I wanted the Alien one, I'd try and get an upgrade to a bigger battery unless they can confirm that they've got the latest high-discharge cells. Even then, 10aH won't take you far at 20 mph.

hi d8veh,

Thank you for your reply. The Alien kits (according to John at Alien) will not fit onto my bike so I have struck them from my list. I am not a competent DIYer (yet) so would not try adapting or messing with any kit in any way. I am aware that the GNG kits are DIY, but they are incredibly cheap. I was just curious about them for now, until I had built up sufficient skill and confidence I would not attempt to fit such a kit myself

 

[haltny]

Hi,

Thank you for replying. At the time of speaking with you earlier I wasn't aware that you were also dealers for Falco kits (perhaps you told me but I missed it?). Thank you again for taking the time to speak with me and offer me advice. To a newbie like me this area is a mine field and can be quite daunting! I will try and test ride all kits before I make my final decision. Thanks again

 

[Deleted member 4366]

hi d8veh,

Thank you for your reply. The Alien kits (according to John at Alien) will not fit onto my bike so I have struck them from my list. I am not a competent DIYer (yet) so would not try adapting or messing with any kit in any way. I am aware that the GNG kits are DIY, but they are incredibly cheap. I was just curious about them for now, until I had built up sufficient skill and confidence I would not attempt to fit such a kit myself

I don't get that at all about the Alien kit not fitting. On nearly all conversions you have to get a bigger disc and caliper adapter that costs about £10 to get the caliper clear of the motor. What's £10 when the kit costs hundreds.

I have both the GNG Gen 1 and 2. The Gen 1 has a lot of power, but it's not that weather-proof. They've improved it a bit since mine, but it's nothing like BBS01 . The Gen 2 is better because it's mainly enclosed. It's still noisy and you have to keep adjusting the primary chain. It has a lot of torque for hill-climbing if you turn the current up a bit, but doesn't feel as comfortable at speed as the Gen 1. I've been using my Gen 2 a lot recently. It doesn't seem to be as efficient as a 500w hub-motor. I did a review on both of them:
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/12771-gng-crank-drive-kit.html
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/13269-new-gng-crank-drive.html

 

[haltny]

I don't get that at all about the Alien kit not fitting. On nearly all conversions you have to get a bigger disc and caliper adapter that costs about £10 to get the caliper clear of the motor. What's £10 when the kit costs hundreds.

I have both the GNG Gen 1 and 2. The Gen 1 has a lot of power, but it's not that weather-proof. They've improved it a bit since mine, but it's nothing like BBS01 . The Gen 2 is better because it's mainly enclosed. It's still noisy and you have to keep adjusting the primary chain. It has a lot of torque for hill-climbing if you turn the current up a bit, but doesn't feel as comfortable at speed as the Gen 1. I've been using my Gen 2 a lot recently. It doesn't seem to be as efficient as a 500w hub-motor. I did a review on both of them:
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/12771-gng-crank-drive-kit.html
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/13269-new-gng-crank-drive.html

Thanks. OK I think the GNG kits are best left to people in the know and definitely not a beginner like me. I checked out that Whoosh BBSO1, it looks awful similar to a kit called the Sunstar SO1. I did look at the Sunstar SO1 kit initially but ruled it out as I was informed it wouldn't be powerful/fast enough for what I wanted out of my kit.

With regards to the Alien Kit, I got a very short email reply from Jim at first all it said was 'Sorry these kits wont fit your bike'. I then emailed back and asked why stating that if it was because its folding not to worry as I dont ever fold it', he replied they wouldnt fit because yes its folding, it has no fittings for a rear rack (which it does coincidentally) and because of the caliper issue. If I am honest it sounded like he just didnt want to sell a kit to me so I wont pursue it. Probably thought because I am complete newb with rubbish technical skills more trouble than its worth!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The Sunstar that I tried was very weak and relatively noisy. The Bafang BBS01 has a lot more power and is very quiet. It's a properly sorted system and easier to fit than a hub-motor. There's different power versions: 250w, 350w, 500w and 750w. I think that they'll be popular over the next couple of years. It's a shame that they stamped the motors so well with the power levels. The 250w kit, which has already been available in the UK is OK for light people, but lacks oomph for heavy people compared with an Ezee or Xipi kit. Just in case you didn't notice it, Sacko's selling another one of his bikes in the "classified" section that I think that you'd like - no dealer backup, but as long as you can wield spanners and a multimeter, there's enough help here to sort out any problems.

 

[haltny]

Thank you.

I just thought id give an update. Today i visited Cyclezee and Frank at Xipi and I tried several different bikes. I wasn't overly impressed with the BBS01 in the 250w guise, I felt it lacked power it would be interesting to try the other verisions but sadly I dont feel I can wait. However that said my friend John whom I took along with me loved it and is seriously considering buying one. I tried the ezee kit road legal version and again it lacked the sense of urgency. In derestricted mode....Much better.

I then went over to Xipi and tried their kit. Again a huge step up in power and speed from the Cyclezze kit but not without its drawbacks, weight in particular is an issue for me as I need to carry it up and down a narrow flight of stairs everyday, not to mention its a lot more money. So the jury is out at the moment between which kit I prefer, however from trying several I now know that I am not too keen on crank drive systems (at least not the 250w ones) and I prefer derestriced kits.

 

[haltny]

I would also like to just add what fantastic guys Cycleeze and Frank at Xipi are for their patience, knowledge and helpfulness and would recommend anyone in my position to speak with them.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I was wondering whether Alien thought you had this type of Cadenza. Not that it makes a massive difference:
Dahon Cadenza

When you build a bike with a kit, you have to decide on the balance between speed, power and distance against cost and weight, whilst taking into account the strength of your bike and the aesthetics of the finished item. There's never an easy answer, and you can never get it quite how you want it.

 

[haltny]

I was wondering whether Alien thought you had this type of Cadenza. Not that it makes a massive difference:
Dahon Cadenza

When you build a bike with a kit, you have to decide on the balance between speed, power and distance against cost and weight, whilst taking into account the strength of your bike and the aesthetics of the finished item. There's never an easy answer, and you can never get it quite how you want it.

When I emailed Jim at Alien I enclosed a photograph of my Cadenza P18 so he would have seen which model I had. However none of that matters now as I have placed a deposit on a silent wing conversion from Frank at Xipi bikes.

After trying several different types of kit it was a toss up between the derestricted kit from Cyclezee or the Xipi kit. Initially I had my reservations about the Xipi kit due to the weight, it is a beast of a kit and the battery was fixed, which would have made carrying it up and down my stairs painful. The other option was to have a rack fitted at the back, however I didn't like the idea of the battery being on show and to cover it would have meant having big ugly panniers. However after speaking with Frank we came up with (I hope) the perfect solution, which was to mount the battery in a Topeak quick release bag. Aesthetically it looks MUCH better, its neater, smaller and apart from the motor nobody will have a clue its an electric bike capable of 30+ mph (and having tried it believe me it really does go that fast if you are mad enough to want to!). Frank and Bob also done me an amazing deal which was too good to refuse!

I drop my bike up to him on Saturday and fingers crossed pick it up a week Saturday, so i will post some photos and give a review (as best i can based on my limited knowledge).

 

[trex]

battery inside a Topeak quick release bag - what a good idea for kit bikes!

 

[haltny]

battery inside a Topeak quick release bag - what a good idea for kit bikes!

Sarcasm is neither needed nor necessary

 

[103Alex1]

I ran my kit with the battery in a Topeak MTX bag at the start. It worked fine, looks good and is very discreet. Those bags are very good quality and stand up to a great deal of punishment. The QR and track work really well and I fitted those racks on both bikes.

The only downsides of using the bag for the battery/controller were :

1) it meant I couldn't carry much stuff on the rack (no good for my particular needs during the middle part of this year). But for light use the drop-down panniers give some carrying space; and

2) I felt that with a heavy rear hub motor coupled with heavy battery and controller weight on the back, any further weight in panniers were making the bike far too rear-heavy to handle well at all in anything more than completely undemanding riding conditions on perfect road surfaces. Hence battery built into the triangle and with lower centre of gravity made a very tangible difference.

I was also a bit nervous walking away from the bike with the battery and controller left in the bag on account of it possibly being tempting to tamperers, and the battery was far too heavy to readily remove if the bike was left unattended.

Obviously there are different constraints with a folder and so there are bound to be compromises. Hope the end result is manageable - the kit itself is certainly impressive performance-wise and guaranteed to give you loads of fun .

 

[haltny]

I ran my kit with the battery in a Topeak MTX bag at the start. It worked fine, looks good and is very discreet. Those bags are very good quality and stand up to a great deal of punishment. The QR and track work really well and I fitted those racks on both bikes.

The only downsides of using the bag for the battery/controller were :

1) it meant I couldn't carry much stuff on the rack (no good for my particular needs during the middle part of this year). But for light use the drop-down panniers give some carrying space; and

2) I felt that with a heavy rear hub motor coupled with heavy battery and controller weight on the back, any further weight in panniers were making the bike far too rear-heavy to handle well at all in anything more than completely undemanding riding conditions on perfect road surfaces. Hence battery built into the triangle and with lower centre of gravity made a very tangible difference.

I was also a bit nervous walking away from the bike with the battery and controller left in the bag on account of it possibly being tempting to tamperers, and the battery was far too heavy to readily remove if the bike was left unattended.

Obviously there are different constraints with a folder and so there are bound to be compromises. Hope the end result is manageable - the kit itself is certainly impressive performance-wise and guaranteed to give you loads of fun .

Hi,

Thanks for your input.

My only concern is the handling, but I do not intend to carry anything else in the panniers (I would be using a rucksack) so fingers crossed it will be ok? I did consider moving the motor to the front wheel to distribute the weight more evenly but with a motor this powerful I felt it best to keep it in the rear. With regards the battery Frank did tell me the best place for even weight distribution is the downtube but that wasnt practical for me atm as i need to carry the bike up and down stairs so need to be able to remove the battery. As and when I get myself a decent shed sorted though I may decide to have the battery moved. I am sure Frank would be more than willing to help one of his customers out.

Hopefully I collect the bike next week and my first ride will be from Marylebone to S.E London a fair distance of about 16 miles so it will be a good chance to see how it rides and get a good feel of it. I am really looking forward to it and will be posting some pics and more about how the bike is. Watch this space!