Hello from East Yorkshire

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GBCS

Pedelecer
Jan 25, 2014
48
27
Hull
Hi All,
I am just dipping a toe back in to cycling after many years away.
As an overweight, unfit 40+, I have been looking at MTB's to go and ride on a few trails with my sons.
I love the look of the Haibikes, although haven't had a demo run yet.
I have spoken to a couple of dealers, and got some good advice, but still haven't decided. Given that I travel to Germany quite frequently, I am tempted to buy over there as the savings seem really good, too good to be true?, am I missing something ?
Also, why would you not buy the 350W models over there rather than the 250W over here and retrofit a dongle ?
I know about the legal stuff, but I was always the kid who was fitting big bore kits to my moped. I respect the law, I just see it as a framework to work around ;) I just love going as fast as I possibly can.
 
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lone_ranger

Pedelecer
Jan 19, 2014
85
9
52
Hello you and welcome. Firstly, buy what you can afford. 2nd, buy something which has a good dealer support network. Now, that's either someone close to you if you are rubbish with spanners or the internet if you are brave. someone further away. MANAGE YOUR OWN EXPECTATIONS
Well done for being brave initially - this site is good.
 

lone_ranger

Pedelecer
Jan 19, 2014
85
9
52
Hello you and welcome. Firstly, buy what you can afford. 2nd, buy something which has a good dealer support network. Now, that's either someone close to you if you are rubbish with spanners or the internet if you are brave. someone further away. MANAGE YOUR OWN EXPECTATIONS
Well done for being brave initially - this site is good.
GBCS, hello again, someone will correct me here which is fine, but 350w is 'against the law' (in honesty it's not 'against' but it's so unproven and not necessary why give yourself the heartache.) And aside from anything else - what are you trying to achive from making this purchase? Time with your kids? You being fitter? Are you showing your ignorance because you think bigger is better? Keep it real mate.
 
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Alan Quay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 4, 2012
2,351
1,076
Devon
GBCS, hello again, someone will correct me here which is fine, but 350w is 'against the law' (in honesty it's not 'against' but it's so unproven and not necessary why give yourself the heartache.) And aside from anything else - what are you trying to achive from making this purchase? Time with your kids? You being fitter? Are you showing your ignorance because you think bigger is better? Keep it real mate.

250 watts may be all you need if you are fit and 7 stone soaking wet. Other times more power may be necassary...and there is nothing 'unproven' about a 350 watt system.

It would help if you were able to give an idea of exactly how 'Extra optimal' your weight is, as well as terrain, range and budget. That way you will get excellent advice from the members here.

..oh, and welcome to the forum.
 

lone_ranger

Pedelecer
Jan 19, 2014
85
9
52
Mike, II'm super unsure but I get your positivity. There ( at least in my research) is a grey area with regards to power. 250watts or under seem ok if you neither have licence/insurance etc. Go over that, you are into an even more grey area. I don't believe that it's useful to post the power figures of which you speak to newcommers.
I'm amazed at my 250watt bike and how much is has opened up things for me. Bigger wattage can bring it's own questions.
GBCS - on a scale of 1 to 5 how good are you with spanners, or would you be much happier knowing a good local bike shop?
How often do you propose to use the bike?
How much can you realistically afford?
There is so much knowledge available on this site, and readily available to contribute, please keep posting, I've found this site useful as a newbie, make the most of it I'm sure you will too.
 

Alan Quay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 4, 2012
2,351
1,076
Devon
Sorry LR, misunderstood your sentiment. Thought you were suggesting that 350watt systems were not proven to be relliable.

You are right to say its a grey area. To sum it up:

<200w: White
200-250: very light grey, off white.
>250: grey, mostly.

However, the OP indicates that he is familiar both with the legalities, and with big bore kits.

It's also important to note that 250 is watts not always equal in this funny pedelec world. My 250 watt bike pulls nearly 30a at 40v sometimes.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
If you could start off by letting us know what you want to achieve with your bike, i.e. what sort of riding you want to do, how hilly it is, how much you actually weigh, etc, it would be easier for us to guide you. Why have you settled on a German bike rather than a nice one from Woosh, Ezee or Kudos? If you want advice on which bike to get, the last place to get it would be from a local dealer, who is most likely to tell you why the brands that he sells are the most suitable.
Edit: I read your post again and can see you want a bike for trails. If you're sure about that, it narrows the field down quite a lot, but then why are you thinking of an "s" class, which will be too fast for trails. How will your sons keep up?
 
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lone_ranger

Pedelecer
Jan 19, 2014
85
9
52
For everyone reading this post, buy what you can afford, and keep your expectations realistic. An electric bicycle will not make you a) Daddy Cool, b) President of the USA, c) 5 stone lighter or whatever. It may make you fitter, more relaxed, have something positive with regards to time with your kids (ie riding, not sitting in McDonalds cos you're a single Dad and that's how you spend Sunday lunch). (And make YOU proud.) Great there's a background of big bore kits, not everyone has that. I am very much enjoying my new (new!!! never had a new vehicle ever in my entire life) bicycle, but I also appreciate it is/will only ever be part of the solution to the changes I wish to make in my life, it's not a panacea. I'm also lucky I have a scientific background, know how to use a spanner, and can get round a selection of technical.
As I say, manage your expectations...
 

GBCS

Pedelecer
Jan 25, 2014
48
27
Hull
Hi All, and thanks for the reply's.
With regard to the questions posed ( in no particular order ):

*"Are you showing your ignorance because you think bigger is better? Keep it real mate." -
This made me smile ! , Ignorance ?, maybe, but with 30 years of experience in racing dirt bikes of the engined variety, I never met anyone who was happy if their machine had less power than was possible.

*"GBCS - on a scale of 1 to 5 how good are you with spanners, or would you be much happier knowing a good local bike shop?" -
I'm a mechanical design engineer, trained in the Nuclear Industry, Currently own and run an engineering company with 50 employees. Fixing push bikes wont cause me too many headaches.

*"How much can you realistically afford?" -
I am in the very lucky position of this not being the deciding factor.

*"GBCS, hello again, someone will correct me here which is fine, but 350w is 'against the law' (in honesty it's not 'against' but it's so unproven and not necessary why give yourself the heartache.)"
- So is the noise level from the exhaust on my motorbike, doing 100 mph on the motorway, using my speed camera detector on French motorways etc. but I can live with my conscience when it comes to those, so a slightly "overpowered" pushbike wont give me any real moral dilemmas.

*"Well done for being brave initially - this site is good."
- Made me smile again, makes joining the site sound like joining AA.

I am 44, 5'9", and lets say a couple of stone over where I would like to be :)

With regard to "expectation", believe it or not, I don't really have one, I like thrashing around in mud on bikes ( motor or cycle ), because it's fun ! My only expectation is smiling, consequential benefits are a bonus !

*"How will your sons keep up?" - My sons are 20, 18 & 16, as far as them keeping up, that's their problem, I will be happy if I can beat them for a change.

Dealer support network, buy local ?, no thanks, I'm with d8veh, I want to deal with a specialist, I don't care where they are.

To get back to the original question: is it worth paying the extra £400 - £500 for the 350W Haibike, as opposed to buying the UK spec 250W and paying £150 for the dongle. How to the benefits of the extra 100W manifest themselves?, is it extra torque?, greater pedal assist ?, assistance to higher speeds ?, As I said, mechanical engineering is my thing, electronics isn't, so all advice appreciated.
 

Electrifying Cycles

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 4, 2011
1,005
176
Personally I would go with larger motor as the warranty will not be void. There are a number of bikes with the larger 350 watt Bosch motor including Blue Label as well as Haibike. Anyway good luck, I am sure you will enjoy whatever bike you choose.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,761
30,348
There ( at least in my research) is a grey area with regards to power. 250watts or under seem ok if you neither have licence/insurance etc. Go over that, you are into an even more grey area.
The grey area is in the actual power output, there's no grey area in the law on ratings. If a pedelec is marketed and/or rated as 350 watts, it is illegal if unregistered anywhere in the UK and mainland EU. Nonetheless many do own and use them unregistered etc, but that does hold implications for one's driving licence if prosecuted.
 

D C

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 25, 2013
1,140
575
that does hold implications for one's driving licence if prosecuted.
Maybe more so having stated premeditated intentions on here and that you are aware of it being illegal. Though ignorance of law is no defense, maybe there would be more lenience if you where unaware of the rules.
Having said that it seems unlikely that anyone would be caught out unless involved in an accident.
The extra power in my opinion may be illegal but is morally acceptable if used responsibly, if I wanted more power I would do it but wouldn't post about it on an open forum.
Dave.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
The Haibikes and KTMs are nice bikes if you don't care too much about the price, and you're happy with letting the dealer fix it if it goes wrong. As an engineer, I would have thought that you'd rather build your own so that you can get the speed and power that you want, and a throttle, and be able to know how it all works and be able to fix it yourself. You can get a nice off-road MTB and fit a 500w Bafang BSS01 kit to it. The only thing you need to plan is what voltage battery to get and where/how to install it. You should have a look on Endless-sphere.com to see the sort of off-road bikes they build there.
 

GBCS

Pedelecer
Jan 25, 2014
48
27
Hull
Maybe more so having stated premeditated intentions on here and that you are aware of it being illegal. Though ignorance of law is no defense, maybe there would be more lenience if you where unaware of the rules.
Having said that it seems unlikely that anyone would be caught out unless involved in an accident.
The extra power in my opinion may be illegal but is morally acceptable if used responsibly, if I wanted more power I would do it but wouldn't post about it on an open forum.
Dave.
Hi DC
I haven't actually stated any intention of using the bike on the road ;)!.
How are the motors marked up?, do they display a rating plate with their maximum output ?.
At the end of the day as stated above, I am prepared to take the calculated risk. As for posting on an open forum, I quick read through any motorcycle or performance car forum would give real cause for concern if plod were interested. The fact is they are not.
 

GBCS

Pedelecer
Jan 25, 2014
48
27
Hull
The Haibikes and KTMs are nice bikes if you don't care too much about the price, and you're happy with letting the dealer fix it if it goes wrong. As an engineer, I would have thought that you'd rather build your own so that you can get the speed and power that you want, and a throttle, and be able to know how it all works and be able to fix it yourself. You can get a nice off-road MTB and fit a 500w Bafang BSS01 kit to it. The only thing you need to plan is what voltage battery to get and where/how to install it. You should have a look on Endless-sphere.com to see the sort of off-road bikes they build there.
d8veh
If there was a straightforward 500w system off the shelf to fit a latest generation full sus bike, I would be there. In truth, I cannot be overly bothered with the messing around with the "variables". I have read a lot of your posts, both on here and on Endless-sphere.com, and I have to say I take my hat off to you, your understanding of these systems is top notch. Running my company, and family life means that I don't have the time for existing hobbies, let alone new ones. I just like the idea of being able to buy a quality fully kitted bike, and riding it. There isn't much we couldn't do in house, but by the time we have done it as a one off, it would cost more than the Haibike or KTM.
 

D C

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 25, 2013
1,140
575
Hi DC

At the end of the day as stated above, I am prepared to take the calculated risk.
Hi GBCS,
This is absolutely your choice and my post wasn't to "have a go" at you or anyone else, just my personal observations.
I should think many of us break several sorts of laws each day so for lots of folk including myself a holier than thou attitude is totally inappropriate, let he who is without sin etc....
I still personally wouldn't advertise what I was going to do, I've seen how tenacious the law can be if high value litigation is involved.
Just as an aside it's my understanding that to be legal off road you have to own the land or have the landowners permission, I may be wrong on that so anyone who knows better feel free to correct me.
Enjoying choosing your bike, the choosing's part of the fun, I'm sure you'll get lots of good advice here:)
 
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OldBob1

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 11, 2012
355
117
Staffordshire
Hi GBCS just go and try some of the bikes you like, if all else fails give it more volts:)
 

Dubster

Pedelecer
Jul 9, 2012
61
11
North Yorkshire
Wecolme GBCS, I live just over the East Yorkshire border. I've been riding a 250 watt e-bike for the last couple years, however I've just sold it and treated myself to a new machine. I'll not say what it is though as to avoid a lynch mob ;)
 
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