how can i make bbs01 PAS respond quicker from standstill

minexplorer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2017
436
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Four Lanes,Cornwall
#1
Ive gone back to using my bbs01 after a period of using bbshd. I love the lower powered bike ,but its dissapointing in one important feature. The bbshd is off the mark as soon as i start turning the cranks. The bbs01 however takes forever for the PAS to respond. I make sure its on say the T17 cog before pushing off from a standstill,yet it takes a full revolution of the cranks before theres any assistance detectable. Dropping further to the T21 not much better, 3/4 of a revolution needed.

Ive got the 'crank trigger pulses' set to 2 the minimum. Ive read this means the power kicks in at a touch,but its doing no such thing.Ive upped the 'slow start ' from 4 to 5, 'Start current' from 10% to 20%. Not improved things even tho using PAS 5 (18amps). So around 3.5amps. 'keep current' 100%. Is it safe on a bbs01 to increase the start current to 30% or more? Or is that only advisable on a bbshd/bbs02 for which the programming tool is written.

The PAS functions perfectly so i dont think its faulty sensors.Just so slow to kick in on start ups. The bike shouldnt have to be in lowest gear to trigger the PAS surely? It does seem the higher the gear/ slower to turn the cranks,the longer the time for response.This flies in the face of the trigger pulse setting tho. A quarter turn should be enough to cause 2 pulses as ive set it.

Im out of ideas.Can anyone suggest anything.Of course i can overcome it by pressing the throttle to start off,but its not the point. Why have a 'crank trigger pulse' setting if it doesnt work.

thanks
 

Fordulike

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 26, 2010
3,400
153
Tyne and Wear
#2
I agree that some of the problem could be the low start current. Coupled with the ramp up, 20% is never going to be quick off the mark. I toyed with my start current a while back, and 10% was unbearably lacklustre. It does give you the perception that nothing is happening at the pedals. I have mine set at the max of 50%. Firmware won't allow higher. I personally wouldn't worry about setting yours at 50%. Just get in the habit of always setting off in a low gear.
 
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minexplorer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2017
436
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Four Lanes,Cornwall
#3
I agree that some of the problem could be the low start current. Coupled with the ramp up, 20% is never going to be quick off the mark. I toyed with my start current a while back, and 10% was unbearably lacklustre. It does give you the perception that nothing is happening at the pedals. I have mine set at the max of 50%. Firmware won't allow higher. I personally wouldn't worry about setting yours at 50%. Just get in the habit of always setting off in a low gear.
thanks fordulike i will try 40% and 50% then if u think that safe for the bbs01. I was worried that the programming tool was just for the more robust/powerful, motor/controllers.At 50% on my PAS 4 set at 15amps thats only 7.5amps at 36v or 270watts, i guess that wont be too much strain.My bbshd by comparison is 30% or 10amps at 52v in PAS 5 or 520watts. Have you kept 'slow start' at 4 as most recommend ,or tried higher,to see if it improves performance?
 
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Fordulike

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 26, 2010
3,400
153
Tyne and Wear
#4
Have you kept 'slow start' at 4 as most recommend ,or tried higher,to see if it improves performance?
I tried other slow start settings, but didn't seem to make any difference so just reverted back to 4.
 

minexplorer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2017
436
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Four Lanes,Cornwall
#5
thanks fordulike i will try 40% and 50% then if u think that safe for the bbs01. I was worried that the programming tool was just for the more robust/powerful, motor/controllers.At 50% on my PAS 4 set at 15amps thats only 7.5amps at 36v or 270watts, i guess that wont be too much strain.My bbshd by comparison is 30% or 10amps at 52v in PAS 5 or 520watts. Have you kept 'slow start' at 4 as most recommend ,or tried higher,to see if it improves performance?
well i upped to 50% start current ,but made no difference,so lowered to 30%.Still taking a whole turn of the cranks at least before i feel any reaction from the motor.Even halfway down the gears its a pain to get going.Slow start set from 4 to 6 gave better acceleration but didnt help getting going. The throttle i changed back to 'speed' from 'current' and increased to 30%. (Ive read you shouldnt exceed 10% SC in current mode).Definately gives a real boost . But a more responsive PAS from standstill is what im still after.Anyone any further ideas or is there something wrong with my PAS? Thanks
 

Fordulike

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 26, 2010
3,400
153
Tyne and Wear
#6
Mmmmm, this is a tricky one. This is a total long shot and probably a last resort, but you could try checking the PAS magnet disc on the inside of the secondary gear. When I replaced my secondary gear recently, I noticed the disc was cracked in a few places on the outer ring. Mine appeared quite bad, so firstly I'm flummoxed how it got to be like this in the first place, and secondly, how on earth it didn't cause me any pedal assist issues.
 

minexplorer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2017
436
50
50
Four Lanes,Cornwall
#7
Mmmmm, this is a tricky one. This is a total long shot and probably a last resort, but you could try checking the PAS magnet disc on the inside of the secondary gear. When I replaced my secondary gear recently, I noticed the disc was cracked in a few places on the outer ring. Mine appeared quite bad, so firstly I'm flummoxed how it got to be like this in the first place, and secondly, how on earth it didn't cause me any pedal assist issues.
I mounted the bike on a stand and turned the crank by hand.Slowly and it takes 2 revolutions to make the power come on,regardless of PAS level or start current level.Turn the crank fast and it activates in a quarter turn.Obviously pushing off is slow turning the cranks.which is why it started a bit better when putting in lowest gear,able to turn cranks bit faster.
 

Fordulike

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 26, 2010
3,400
153
Tyne and Wear
#8
I mounted the bike on a stand and turned the crank by hand.Slowly and it takes 2 revolutions to make the power come on,regardless of PAS level or start current level.Turn the crank fast and it activates in a quarter turn.Obviously pushing off is slow turning the cranks.which is why it started a bit better when putting in lowest gear,able to turn cranks bit faster.
I dunno, I just get this feeling that for some reason, the PAS sensor isn't picking up the revolutions from the PAS disc properly, or maybe intermittently. Hope you get to the bottom of this mystery.
 

minexplorer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2017
436
50
50
Four Lanes,Cornwall
#9
I dunno, I just get this feeling that for some reason, the PAS sensor isn't picking up the revolutions from the PAS disc properly, or maybe intermittently. Hope you get to the bottom of this mystery.
SOLVED Thanks for the suggestions fordulike.It was the 'time of stop' setting . I recently set it to 5.For quickest gear changes.Someone on an endless sphere thread had done the same with the same result.once he set it above 10 it worked properly again.Soon as i set mine to 15 it activates in less than a quarter turn no matter how slow i turn the crank.10 i thought was still playing up a bit. The hackers guide says version 2 controllers (mine)can have PAS issues set under 10.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
6,947
371
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West Sx RH
#10
Time of stop. I thought was all about how quick the drive stops after pedalling.

Start up deg. For pas sensor rotation /travel activation.
 

minexplorer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2017
436
50
50
Four Lanes,Cornwall
#11
Time of stop. I thought was all about how quick the drive stops after pedalling.

Start up deg. For pas sensor rotation /travel activation.
Yeah it is,weird eh.Well the hackers guide says version 1 controllers can be set down to 5.While ver 2 (the bbs01b? or just the latest ones with the extra gear and light cables im not sure.both apply to mine) will have issues with the PAS if set less than 10.Doesnt say what those issues are,but mentions the start up delay on throttle will be affected.Maybe thats a mis print and he meant start up delay on PAS.
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,595
907
The European Union
#12
Time of stop. I thought was all about how quick the drive stops after pedalling.
They are still using their Chinglish translator apparently... There are bits like that in the KT-LCD manual I have too.

Micro$oft, god bless their little hearts, cost me a half day of sweat and swearing because the French translation of TCP-IP setup in a version of Windose was exactly the opposite of what you were supposed to do so it isn't just a Chinese thing.
 

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