I sold my ebike.

piratepete

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 2, 2024
16
9
Unfortunately it is true. My DIY ebike had a dinner plate Chinese DD rear hub and a 52V 20Ah battery with LG cells and throttle only; proper Deliveroo spec. The controller was rated at 35A, you can do the maths. It did still have working pedals but wasn't at all legal to use on the road. It was fun and cheap and capable of 35mph but the threat of the police crackdowns and an unclear response from the Chinese seller whether the battery BMS had temperature control forced my hand. I have too much to lose now.

So I sold it for cash and handed that cash to a young lad for his beaten up 50cc moped. It's the best thing I did, it needed a few general maintenance items but after that, it was ready to go. My current insurers were happy to tag on the moped fully comp with commuting for pro rata £37 a year. That's probably less than some pay to insure their bicycle. It's a four stroke so does 100+ mpg and tax is £25 which seems a lot given the size of the engine but isn't the end of the world.

This post is just a note to those with high power ebikes that really do consider a moped. It wasn't nearly as expensive as I thought it would be and now I can sling a helmet on and potter around at 30mph without worrying about every Insignia estate in the mirror, I just have to use the small bit of road next to the cycle paths instead. It's also massively comfortable with its soft wide seat. Yes, a tiny bit more regular maintenance but the ebike wasn't free of that either. Especially as a high power DIY, I had many problems melting connectors (contributed to the fire risk) and wearing brakes and suspension with heavy use. However, I am grateful for the knowledge gained while building the thing as we enter the era of PLEVs, it's just not ready for my use case yet.

That's one more illegal ebike off the street. :D
 

Ghost1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2024
1,222
426
I have always thought that people who want to ride at higher than normal bicycle speeds should buy a motorcycle. There are stunning bikes around for little money. I bought this now 26 year old Honda 250 without an MOT about four years ago for £650 and the guy delivered it to me in his van.

The MOT was passed easily. I checked it over and all it needed was an adjustment of the brake light switch and the fitting of a nut securing split pin on the rear brake torque arm. It has passed every MOT since then without any advisories.

59631

It is a real beauty. It had about 12000 miles on it and looked after it would easily do 70,000 miles without much attention beyond regular oil changes. It has 20 HP, and will cruise all day at 60 miles an hour and ridden gently it achieves 90 - 100 miles per gallon. I think it is about the last of my bikes I would ever part with. It is a very sweet, reliable ride.
 

piratepete

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 2, 2024
16
9
I have always thought that people who want to ride at higher than normal bicycle speeds should buy a motorcycle. There are stunning bikes around for little money. I bought this now 26 year old Honda 250 without an MOT about four years ago for £650 and the guy delivered it to me in his van.

The MOT was passed easily. I checked it over and all it needed was an adjustment of the brake light switch and the fitting of a nut securing split pin on the rear brake torque arm. It has passed every MOT since then without any advisories.

View attachment 59631

It is a real beauty. It had about 12000 miles on it and looked after it would easily do 70,000 miles without much attention beyond regular oil changes. It has 20 HP, and will cruise all day at 60 miles an hour and ridden gently it achieves 90 - 100 miles per gallon. I think it is about the last of my bikes I would ever part with. It is a very sweet, reliable ride.
I also have a full license and considered a 250ish cc. It really came down to the insurance as a 49cc was good enough as free whereas anything bigger added £100s to my premium. This is my commuter so purely came down to cost.
 
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saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
6,246
2,938
Telford
I also have a full license and considered a 250ish cc. It really came down to the insurance as a 49cc was good enough as free whereas anything bigger added £100s to my premium. This is my commuter so purely came down to cost.
I have a 300cc scooter (actually 279cc). Insurance is about £150 and tax is £55. It's not much considering that it can comfortably do long journeys (200 miles), does around 90 mpg and is very nippy and convenient in heavy traffic. It only weighs about 180kg and it can carry a lot of stuff. It's an excellent alternative to a car if you have a long journey through heavy traffic.
 

piratepete

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 2, 2024
16
9
I have a 300cc scooter (actually 279cc). Insurance is about £150 and tax is £55. It's not much considering that it can comfortably do long journeys (200 miles), does around 90 mpg and is very nippy and convenient in heavy traffic. It only weighs about 180kg and it can carry a lot of stuff. It's an excellent alternative to a car if you have a long journey through heavy traffic.
I would love a maxi scoot as running costs are not far from a 50 and they are much more capable and comfortable. But it's not worth it for me for an extra couple hundred a year in insurance costs. I used to e-cycle/throttle my route to work on small country lanes and max 30mph town roads so the moped does fine. I do get a bit cold without pedalling now though.

Not that this is top trumps, but the moped weighs only 90kg wet through which makes moving it out the way to get to the proper bikes in the garage a breeze. Those are reserved for spirited outings and track days so don't have to move much.
 

Ghost1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2024
1,222
426
Insurance is such a variable cost, depending on how old you are, where you live and your driving record. I paid £108 for that old Honda. I think the tax wzs about £47, and the mot about £30. I suppose it does add up unless you get reasonable use out of it.
 
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portals

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 15, 2022
538
163
Thanks for posting, I am in similar situation and am considering initially replacing my 1500W dinner plate with a much more subtle 500W motor and branding it 250W. I use the bike to go out with my son on rides so a moped would be of little use to me.

My controller is a KT 17A/35A (continuous/peak) and display is a colour KT-LCD8H with an LG celled 52V 17.5mAh Hailong.

I have done zero research in to this yet, it's currently just a thought to maybe replace the 1500W hub with a 500W hub to become more legal. ;-)

Am I correct in thinking that all I really need to do is check the C and P settings in the controller are OK for a smaller 500W hub as for first stage I plan to leave throttle on bike.

Plan is to down grade bike bit by bit to get as close to legal or even legal as long as the bike is still fit for purpose for me. I don't need 30mph, I am very happy cruising at 20/22mph however I'm just not convinced that most 250W hubs can give me that reliably.

If I buy a 500W hub and run it from 52V battery:
I=P/V =500W/52V = 9.6A so approx 10A

So the 500W hub will pull way less continuous current than 1500W hub from the controller increasing range, apart from getting a new 500W with the same connector is there anything else I should initially be aware of, am I missing anything obvious here swapping out 1500W for 500/250W?

Does anyone have any recommendations for a 500W rear hub, I think it will powerful enough to cruise at 22mph, that is my key goal (or 250W).

Alternatively I've looked at making 1500W legal, I believe that I'd need get bike typed by DSA (£70?), then have tax (£?) and insurance (£?) and I cannot find anyone online who offers this for 1500W so cannot even price it!

Any thoughts welcome!

60027
 

Az.

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 27, 2022
1,901
846
Plymouth
Any thoughts welcome!
What is the point of replacing illegal 1kW motor with illegal 500W motor? You just don't want to look like delivery rider?

Use 25Ow motor and as many watts as you need. In my experience 500W or 750W is more than enough.

I heard you can't use speed pedelecs in UK as you won't be able to buy insurance.
 
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piratepete

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 2, 2024
16
9
Alternatively I've looked at making 1500W legal, I believe that I'd need get bike typed by DSA (£70?), then have tax (£?) and insurance (£?) and I cannot find anyone online who offers this for 1500W so cannot even price it!
It won't be allowed on cyclepaths just like a moped.

Is the 500W idea just to reduce the diameter of the rear hub? Because most that I've seen are still quite big. 250W rated will comfortably run at 22mph if set up correctly. You just can't get a cheap one.
 

portals

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 15, 2022
538
163
What is the point of replacing illegal 1kW motor with illegal 500W motor? You just don't want to look like delivery rider?

Use 25Ow motor and as many watts as you need. In my experience 500W or 750W is more than enough.

I heard you can't use speed pedelecs in UK as you won't be able to buy insurance.
The 1500W hub is massive give away and attracts attention and is bloody heavy (10kg) and I ain't getting any younger and live on 2nd floor and bike lives in flat. I have seen 500W motors that look only to be a little larger than 250W.

Can you recommend a couple of links for 250W or brands as there seems so much junk out there?

I think you might be right about not being able to get insurance anywhere in UK...
 

portals

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 15, 2022
538
163
It won't be allowed on cyclepaths just like a moped.
True...


Is the 500W idea just to reduce the diameter of the rear hub? Because most that I've seen are still quite big. 250W rated will comfortably run at 22mph if set up correctly. You just can't get a cheap one.
Yes to reduce diameter and weight (significantly), but it should be capable of 22mph Cruise on flat and assist up hills and still have throttle for testing.

Can you recommend a cpl of links for a 250W hub that I could get 22mph from my KT controller/display and 52V battery?

What do you mean by 'set it up properly', you mean the controller P and C settings?
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
16,652
6,409
m8s has been riding his 1000w bafang mid drive bike around for the last 5 years now and has never been stopped and can go about 45mph with a throttle and stock controller turned up to the max amp wise.
 

Peter.Bridge

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 19, 2023
1,122
504
Thanks for posting, I am in similar situation and am considering initially replacing my 1500W dinner plate with a much more subtle 500W motor and branding it 250W. I use the bike to go out with my son on rides so a moped would be of little use to me.

My controller is a KT 17A/35A (continuous/peak) and display is a colour KT-LCD8H with an LG celled 52V 17.5mAh Hailong.

I have done zero research in to this yet, it's currently just a thought to maybe replace the 1500W hub with a 500W hub to become more legal. ;-)

Am I correct in thinking that all I really need to do is check the C and P settings in the controller are OK for a smaller 500W hub as for first stage I plan to leave throttle on bike.

Plan is to down grade bike bit by bit to get as close to legal or even legal as long as the bike is still fit for purpose for me. I don't need 30mph, I am very happy cruising at 20/22mph however I'm just not convinced that most 250W hubs can give me that reliably.

If I buy a 500W hub and run it from 52V battery:
I=P/V =500W/52V = 9.6A so approx 10A

So the 500W hub will pull way less continuous current than 1500W hub from the controller increasing range, apart from getting a new 500W with the same connector is there anything else I should initially be aware of, am I missing anything obvious here swapping out 1500W for 500/250W?

Does anyone have any recommendations for a 500W rear hub, I think it will powerful enough to cruise at 22mph, that is my key goal (or 250W).

Alternatively I've looked at making 1500W legal, I believe that I'd need get bike typed by DSA (£70?), then have tax (£?) and insurance (£?) and I cannot find anyone online who offers this for 1500W so cannot even price it!

Any thoughts welcome!

View attachment 60027
Parameter C5 allows you to "detune" the controller - setting it to 03 (the maximum reduction) will set it to 8.5/17.5 amps (ie 17.5 amps in the maximum PAS level) - that is more than enough for your requirements ! I detuned my KT 11/22 amp controller to 9/18 amps, which allows me to easily get up the steepest hills round here ( bike + rider= 125 kg) using 48V system with Bafang G020 in a 26" wheel.

I would be tempted to get either a Bafang G020 hub or a Aikema AKM-128C (can get them from topbikekit) You will need to change some of your controller parameters based on the motor e.g. I had to set P1 = 100 for a Bafang G020 (Motor Gear Reduction Ratio × Number of Rotor Magnets).

Just be careful which winding code you get - this determines the maximum no load speed - the "standard" Bafang G020 that you can get from ebay / amazon / Ali is 12 - that equates to around 28 mph no load speed for a full 48V battery on a 26" wheel, which would be enough for your requirements - faster no load speed - faster possible top speed, slower no load speed , better climbing ability
 
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saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
6,246
2,938
Telford
Thanks for posting, I am in similar situation and am considering initially replacing my 1500W dinner plate with a much more subtle 500W motor and branding it 250W. I use the bike to go out with my son on rides so a moped would be of little use to me.

My controller is a KT 17A/35A (continuous/peak) and display is a colour KT-LCD8H with an LG celled 52V 17.5mAh Hailong.

I have done zero research in to this yet, it's currently just a thought to maybe replace the 1500W hub with a 500W hub to become more legal. ;-)

Am I correct in thinking that all I really need to do is check the C and P settings in the controller are OK for a smaller 500W hub as for first stage I plan to leave throttle on bike.

Plan is to down grade bike bit by bit to get as close to legal or even legal as long as the bike is still fit for purpose for me. I don't need 30mph, I am very happy cruising at 20/22mph however I'm just not convinced that most 250W hubs can give me that reliably.

If I buy a 500W hub and run it from 52V battery:
I=P/V =500W/52V = 9.6A so approx 10A

So the 500W hub will pull way less continuous current than 1500W hub from the controller increasing range, apart from getting a new 500W with the same connector is there anything else I should initially be aware of, am I missing anything obvious here swapping out 1500W for 500/250W?

Does anyone have any recommendations for a 500W rear hub, I think it will powerful enough to cruise at 22mph, that is my key goal (or 250W).

Alternatively I've looked at making 1500W legal, I believe that I'd need get bike typed by DSA (£70?), then have tax (£?) and insurance (£?) and I cannot find anyone online who offers this for 1500W so cannot even price it!

Any thoughts welcome!

View attachment 60027
Q128C or Q128H from BMSBattery or any AKM128 motor from whoever sells them should do the job nicely. 260 rpm is idea if you want to stick to 15 mph limit. 201 rpm would be a torque monster for towing. 328 rpm for 22 mph cruising.
 

Peter.Bridge

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 19, 2023
1,122
504
Thanks for the replies.

I will now do a bit of research ;-)
If you are going to run it with a 52v nominal battery then it will run 1/12 faster than stated for 48v

eta - also bear in mind as the voltage drops, the speed of the motor will drop
 
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