Intermittent power delivery from TONGSHENG TSDZ2 mid motor with torque sensor

Pumpalump

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 22, 2020
15
3
Hi All,
I recently converted a friends Orange 5 mountain using a Tongsheng TSDZ2 mid mounted motor but after about 500 miles he has been complaining that the power delivery is cutting out.
Ive checked the bike over and everything looks ok so I took it for a spin and there did seem to be an intermittent issue with the power in that it would indeed drop out a little at times but not consistent.

I did notice the rear tyre was under inflated (in fact in nearly had me off on bends)so wondering if this could confuse the controller?

The bike is fitted with a VLCD6 so not a lot of functions available to play with as far as I am aware.
Im not sure if it is possible to check the torque readings on this unit?

Any advice would be most welcome.
 

sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
3,071
2,312
Most likely reasons for cutting out are poor connections (will happen more regularly) or a battery that is not quite up to requirements of the controller/motor (will happen under strains such as hills).
 
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vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
9,822
3,951
Basildon
If the power cuts and the LCD stays on, it's a problem between the control system and the motor. If the LCD goes off, it's a problem between the battery and the controller/LCD. the biggest cause of TSDZ2 cut-outs is the speed sensor not positioned correctly.
 
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Pumpalump

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 22, 2020
15
3
If the power cuts and the LCD stays on, it's a problem between the control system and the motor. If the LCD goes off, it's a problem between the battery and the controller/LCD. the biggest cause of TSDZ2 cut-outs is the speed sensor not positioned correctly.
I swapped the display for a working spare I have but same issue.
The LCD is staying on when the power delivery reduces (it doesn't actually cut out, there seems to be a kind of resistance when it happens as if you are peddling against the electrical flux in the motor). Ive re adjusted the Magnet / Sensor , this made no difference.
The battery pins seem ok but I am going to swap out the battery with another from my bike to see if makes any difference.
If the symptoms persists I will check all connections again , if that doesn't work then I guess the only thing it can be is the onboard motor controller or torque sensors ?

One thing to note , when setting off from a standstill the motor is giving full power but then this defiantly reduces as you peddle on.
 

Pumpalump

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 22, 2020
15
3
Most likely reasons for cutting out are poor connections (will happen more regularly) or a battery that is not quite up to requirements of the controller/motor (will happen under strains such as hills).
The issue is even apparent on the flat.
The battery pins seem ok but I am going to swap out the battery with another from my bike to see if makes any difference.
If the symptoms persists I will check all connections again , if that doesn't work then I guess the only thing it can be is the onboard motor controller or torque sensors ?

One thing to note , when setting off from a standstill the motor is giving full power but then this defiantly reduces as you peddle on and there seems to be a reluctance in the motor that you have to peddle against.
 

MontyPAS

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 16, 2020
386
151
One thing to note , when setting off from a standstill the motor is giving full power but then this defiantly reduces as you peddle on and there seems to be a reluctance in the motor that you have to peddle against.
Sounds normal for a TSDZ2 ????
 

peter.c

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 24, 2018
1,499
447
thurrock essex
If it gets too hot it cuts the power this little gem is hidden away :rolleyes: stop and let it cool off ,the cover does not act as a heat sink on a tsdz2 if it is hot the controller is cooking
 
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Pumpalump

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 22, 2020
15
3
If it gets too hot it cuts the power this little gem is hidden away :rolleyes: stop and let it cool off ,the cover does not act as a heat sink on a tsdz2 if it is hot the controller is cooking
This is happening after only 100 yards . The motor is flat cold.
My own bike has exactly the same kit and works without issues even when the motor gets a little hot.
 

peter.c

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 24, 2018
1,499
447
thurrock essex
The torque sensor is not calibrating possible cheap fix is remove battery then short red black power leads going into the motor to drain large capacitor .Reconnect power switch on do not touch pedals for 1 min ,
The first batch of motors took longer to self calibrate the torque sensor a problem supposedly fixed in the new 2020 version
Last one i purchased direct from re cycles in china with the open source software and colour display worked better but still had that variable build quality / tolerance that others have also found.
The side play in the main shaft affects the sensor can also wear through the plastic cover TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Failure (Reading High, not Completely Broken) Demonstration - YouTube
 
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Pumpalump

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 22, 2020
15
3
The torque sensor is not calibrating possible cheap fix is remove battery then short red black power leads going into the motor to drain large capacitor .Reconnect power switch on do not touch pedals for 1 min ,
The first batch of motors took longer to self calibrate the torque sensor a problem supposedly fixed in the new 2020 version
Last one i purchased direct from re cycles in china with the open source software and colour display worked better but still had that variable build quality / tolerance that others have also found.
The side play in the main shaft affects the sensor can also wear through the plastic cover TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Failure (Reading High, not Completely Broken) Demonstration - YouTube
Thanks for the info, I'll give it a go and report back soon but before I do you mean just connect the black and red together? Isn't this going to pop the capacitor ?
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
17,008
6,645
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West Sx RH
Does sound like a TS fault of calibration when pressure is applied.

No it won't pop the capacitor though you will get a crack from shorting the wires as the voltage drains, you are not shorting out by adding voltage incorrectly.
 
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Pumpalump

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 22, 2020
15
3
Does sound like a TS fault of calibration when pressure is applied.

No it won't pop the capacitor though you will get a crack from shorting the wires as the voltage drains, you are not shorting out by adding voltage incorrectly.
Not convinced but I'll give it a go !!! Wish me luck.
 

peter.c

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 24, 2018
1,499
447
thurrock essex
Yes i found it hard when the supplier suggested it :eek:
The torque sensor is a fun strip and replace be carful if supplier says to send it back. the Europe repairer agent is in italy customs and vat both ways ! :mad:and to send back to china costs a fortune
Found the only way is to replace it yourself or buy another motor kit it was the final nail in my tsdz2 experience, whilst great on paper impossible to fit for a friend or sell, they all develop a niggle or fail prematurely when compared to a bafang
 
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Pumpalump

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 22, 2020
15
3
Yes i found it hard when the supplier suggested it :eek:
The torque sensor is a fun strip and replace be carful if supplier says to send it back. the Europe repairer agent is in italy customs and vat both ways ! :mad:and to send back to china costs a fortune
Found the only way is to replace it yourself or buy another motor kit it was the final nail in my tsdz2 experience, whilst great on paper impossible to fit for a friend or sell, they all develop a niggle or fail prematurely when compared to a bafang
Well I dragged myself into the garage at 11.15pm , removed the battery , disconnected the wires and then proceeded to short the motor cables, result not a squib , nothing at all , Zilch spark.
I just hope the voltage was so small it didn't have enough umph to create a spark but has reset the torque sensor.
I couldn't swap the battery over as the cradles are different to mine so have decided to swap the cradles over as well just to rule any battery issues out.
My guy feeling is it is the motor controller that is shagged (to put it mildly).
The saga continues.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
17,008
6,645
59
West Sx RH
If the battery has a switch and is off then the controller capacitor will eventually self discharge so could be why no sparking when shorted out.
 
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Pumpalump

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 22, 2020
15
3
If the battery has a switch and is off then the controller capacitor will eventually self discharge so could be why no sparking when shorted out.
Makes sense as this battery does have an on and off switch that actually works unlike some others I have used.
 
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Pumpalump

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 22, 2020
15
3
Hi all,
As usual I forgot to update you all, apologies.

I was a little apprehensive to say the least on my decision to replace the motor controller rather than the torque sensor , just an educated guess really.

Ok then a strip down of the motor , original controller out and brand new replacement motor controller installed, motor rebuilt and re-fitted (no bits and bobs left over which is always a good sign) power on and the display on, so far so good.no loud pops or blinding flashes. Level assist 1 selected , foot on pedal , push down , bike moves forward and continues to move forward as I keep peddling , select level 2, yep still all seems good, skip level 3 and straight to level 4. BONZI the bloody thing is working.
Long test ride next over 20 miles of varied surfaces and the motor performed impeccably I am pleased to say.
My friend has now be riding the bike for quite a few weeks now and is thrilled to bits with it agin.

Anyone in the market for an old US controller? Would look nice as an exhibition unit.
 
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