Is this ebike UK legal

[Dave9]

Hi
i have just bought a used 9 year old hybrid ebike
The seller, who is a nice guy, said it was an ebike when it was new, but he has recently upgraded the electrics with new parts, new motor, controller , battery etc to these current specs
750 watt rear hub motor, but which he has restricted in the controller, down to 250 watts
48volts and 28mha
it has both throttle and pedal assist, but I am going to have the throttle disconnected in the controller and just use pedal assist

Maybe I should have asked this question before I bought it, is this legal to ride in the UK
thanks
Dave

 

[Nealh]

Not legal if the motor is marked 750w.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Hi
i have just bought a used 9 year old hybrid ebike
The seller, who is a nice guy, said it was an ebike when it was new, but he has recently upgraded the electrics with new parts, new motor, controller , battery etc to these current specs
750 watt rear hub motor, but which he has restricted in the controller, down to 250 watts
48volts and 28mha
it has both throttle and pedal assist, but I am going to have the throttle disconnected in the controller and just use pedal assist

Maybe I should have asked this question before I bought it, is this legal to ride in the UK
thanks
Dave

If you ride legally, never go over red at the lights, keep to within the legal electric range of speed, not ride anywhere just using the throttle etc etc., you are unlikely to be found out....
Or you could legally get it registered as a Moped (I believe!) pay road tax and insurance, use a helmet, put on Number Plates, and get to use the potential performance the bike was built for...Thats as much as I know about that!!!
There are people here who can give you better advice than mine about moped registration.
regards
Andy

 

[vfr400]

You can use a 250w motor and run it at 750w, but you can't take a 750w motor and run it at 250w.

What does it do when it's set to 250w? If it were set to 250w maximum output, it would be absolutely useless. The average 250w system is 15A and 36v, which is a maximum of 630w when the battery is fully charged at 42v, or around 400w of output power.

The people that wrote the law didn't really understand how ebikes work, or they did and realised it was too complicated to tie down with rules about actual power, so they left the door open by putting the restriction on the "rated" power of the motor, which is basically what's written on the label, so if your motor has a 250w label on it, you're home and dry. If it says anything more than 250w, you're out, and if it has no label, you're out too, because the law says that your bike has to be labelled with the power and speed.

This is from the government website. Notice that they missed out the word "rated" which is a mistake:

An EAPC must have pedals that can be used to propel it.

It must show either:

• the power output
• the manufacturer of the motor

It must also show either:

• the battery’s voltage
• the maximum speed of the bike

Its electric motor:

• must have a maximum power output of 250 watts
• should not be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling more than 15.5mph

An EAPC can have more than 2 wheels (for example, a tricycle).

 

[Dave9]

Not legal if the motor is marked 750w.

Thanks for your kind reply Nealh, I will check when I get back home

 

[Dave9]

If you ride legally, never go over red at the lights, keep to within the legal electric range of speed, not ride anywhere just using the throttle etc etc., you are unlikely to be found out....
Or you could legally get it registered as a Moped (I believe!) pay road tax and insurance, use a helmet, put on Number Plates, and get to use the potential performance the bike was built for...Thats as much as I know about that!!!
There are people here who can give you better advice than mine about moped registration.
regards
Andy

Thanks for your kind reply Andy, I am indeed a very responsible cyclist. In hind sight I maybe should have gone for a less powerful system, but i thought this would be good because I wanted long range due to my old age . Thanks

 

[Andy-Mat]

Thanks for your kind reply Andy, I am indeed a very responsible cyclist. In hind sight I maybe should have gone for a less powerful system, but i thought this would be good because I wanted long range due to my old age . Thanks

If you had actually used the motor power (750W), the range would have been far less, as to double your speed, requires 4 times the energy or battery capacity....simple physics.
Only someone with the same motor, but driving far slower, could find out for certain what actual power savings might be achieved....
Let us know what you do finally please, and never forget that if you drive legally, you are most unlikely to be stopped.....
I find a second battery, it does not need (in my case anyway) to have the same capacity as the "main" battery, and is therefore generally far cheaper, gives me the extra range needed for longer journeys. Mine fits in a slightly modified (extra hole!) saddle bag. But I don't need them both that often......but I do use them alternately, to keep them both working well.....as every Li-ion Battery, needs to be treated properly! Especially when not riding for long periods!
Best wishes
Andy

 

[Dave9]

If you had actually used the motor power (750W), the range would have been far less, as to double your speed, requires 4 times the energy or battery capacity....simple physics.
Only someone with the same motor, but driving far slower, could find out for certain what actual power savings might be achieved....
Let us know what you do finally please, and never forget that if you drive legally, you are most unlikely to be stopped.....
I find a second battery, it does not need (in my case anyway) to have the same capacity as the "main" battery, and is therefore generally far cheaper, gives me the extra range needed for longer journeys. Mine fits in a slightly modified (extra hole!) saddle bag. But I don't need them both that often......but I do use them alternately, to keep them both working well.....as every Li-ion Battery, needs to be treated properly! Especially when not riding for long periods!
Best wishes
Andy

Thanks again Andy for your very knowledgeable reply, the bike actually came with a spare extra brand new battery with same power of 48v 28ah.
It's very early days with the bike so far, , but hopefully it will be ok for my needs, kind regards, Dave

 

[Dave9]

You can use a 250w motor and run it at 750w, but you can't take a 750w motor and run it at 250w.

What does it do when it's set to 250w? If it were set to 250w maximum output, it would be absolutely useless. The average 250w system is 15A and 36v, which is a maximum of 630w when the battery is fully charged at 42v, or around 400w of output power.

The people that wrote the law didn't really understand how ebikes work, or they did and realised it was too complicated to tie down with rules about actual power, so they left the door open by putting the restriction on the "rated" power of the motor, which is basically what's written on the label, so if your motor has a 250w label on it, you're home and dry. If it says anything more than 250w, you're out, and if it has no label, you're out too, because the law says that your bike has to be labelled with the power and speed.

This is from the government website. Notice that they missed out the word "rated" which is a mistake:

An EAPC must have pedals that can be used to propel it.

It must show either:

• the power output
• the manufacturer of the motor

It must also show either:

• the battery’s voltage
• the maximum speed of the bike

Its electric motor:

• must have a maximum power output of 250 watts
• should not be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling more than 15.5mph

An EAPC can have more than 2 wheels (for example, a tricycle).

Thanks very much vfr400 for your kind reply
ive had a look at the rear hub motor and it states LY-36v500w so apparently not 750w, but still above 250w
kind regards, Dave

 

[Dave9]

Thanks for your kind reply Nealh, I will check when I get back home

I’ve just looked and It states LY-36v500w on the rear hub motor, thanks, Dave

 

[vfr400]

I’ve just looked and It states LY-36v500w on the rear hub motor, thanks, Dave

You could replace it with a 36v 250w one, which wouldn't cost much. Everything else should be compatible. Do you know what controller you have?

Show some pictures of your bike.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Thanks again Andy for your very knowledgeable reply, the bike actually came with a spare extra brand new battery with same power of 48v 28ah.
It's very early days with the bike so far, , but hopefully it will be ok for my needs, kind regards, Dave

Use your batteries alternately, assuming that removal and replacement is easy, on say a 4 week cycle, as Li-ion batteries do not like to "be ignored" for long periods.
Having a cheap Multi-meter can save a lot of errors, assuming that you do not already have one.....
regards
Andy

 

[Dave9]

You could replace it with a 36v 250w one, which wouldn't cost much. Everything else should be compatible. Do you know what controller you have?

Show some pictures of your bike.

Use your batteries alternately, assuming that removal and replacement is easy, on say a 4 week cycle, as Li-ion batteries do not like to "be ignored" for long periods.
Having a cheap Multi-meter can save a lot of errors, assuming that you do not already have one.....
regards
Andy

Thanks again Andy and vfr400 for your kind replies, I very much appreciate them.
i will alternate the batteries Andy.
So one option is to buy a new 36v 250w rear hub motor including 28inch wheel,
but will my controller be compatible, here are two pics, can you tell if this would work with the 250w 36v
kine regards, Dave

 

[vfr400]

That controller looks a bit too powerful for a 250w motor, so you'd need to get a new one, which will probably be a big improvement to your bike's usability. Around £40 for a nice one and £70 for a really nice one. Do you have an LCD? If so, show a photo.

 

[Andy-Mat]

View attachment 39470View attachment 39471


Thanks again Andy and vfr400 for your kind replies, I very much appreciate them.
i will alternate the batteries Andy.
So one option is to buy a new 36v 250w rear hub motor including 28inch wheel,
but will my controller be compatible, here are two pics, can you tell if this would work with the 250w 36v
kine regards, Dave

As VFR400 said, as long as its a 48v Motor 250 watt, it will work.
But the electronics appear to be built for up to 1000 Watts...So about a quarter of the heat will be released in the electronics you have just shown us, theoretically, it will never burn out!!
It will be just "idling" along!
regards
Andy

 

[Dave9]

That controller looks a bit too powerful for a 250w motor, so you'd need to get a new one, which will probably be a big improvement to your bike's usability. Around £40 for a nice one and £70 for a really nice one. Do you have an LCD? If so, show a photo.

Thanks, it does not have an LCD , just this basic component showing battery level

 

[vfr400]

Thanks, it does not have an LCD , just this basic component showing battery level

How does the pedal sensor work then? Does it just give full power? Not having a pedal sensor is completely illegal regardless of motor.

 

[Dave9]

As VFR400 said, as long as its a 48v Motor 250 watt, it will work.
But the electronics appear to be built for up to 1000 Watts...So about a quarter of the heat will be released in the electronics you have just shown us, theoretically, it will never burn out!!
It will be just "idling" along!
regards
Andy

How does the pedal sensor work then? Does it just give full power? Not having a pedal sensor is completely illegal regardless of motor.

it does have pedal assist and I think It just gives full power, just a basic, but powerful setup.
So my options are
1, To keep this current set up and take a chance even though the 500w motor is restricted to 250w
or
2, buy a new 28inch wheel with a 250w motor and keep the same powerful controller, which I prefer because I am a novice at the electronics so would prefer to keep the current controller, but only if it is safe to do so. ( and at least it will not overheat )
3, add the new controller to number 2 set up above
many thanks again

 

[vfr400]

it does have pedal assist and I think It just gives full power, just a basic, but powerful setup.
So my options are
1, To keep this current set up and take a chance even though the 500w motor is restricted to 250w
or
2, buy a new 28inch wheel with a 250w motor and keep the same powerful controller, which I prefer because I am a novice at the electronics so would prefer to keep the current controller, but only if it is safe to do so. ( and at least it will not overheat )
3, add the new controller to number 2 set up above
many thanks again

2 is not an option. Both Your throttle and pedal sensor give maximum power, which will strip the gears on a 250w motor. You can't regulate power with a throttle because it's a speed controller. I'm not sure what your controller does when you set it to 250w. I'd guess that it just reduces the maximum speed. Can you feel a difference in oomph between the two settings when you pull away from a start?

 

[Dave9]

2 is not an option. Both Your throttle and pedal sensor give maximum power, which will strip the gears on a 250w motor. You can't regulate power with a throttle because it's a speed controller. I'm not sure what your controller does when you set it to 250w. I'd guess that it just reduces the maximum speed. Can you feel a difference in oomph between the two settings when you pull away from a start?

When I initially went to see the bike, the seller explained that he could either leave it at 750w or restrict the motor down to 250w to make it road legal and that is what I wanted so I’ve only ever ridden it with motor at 250w, I am going to disconnect the throttle anyway so it will just be pedal assistance at 250w.
The basic handlebar battery level component I assume, may probably mean that the pedal assist will be at full power, but I wondered like what you mentioned that by restricting the motor, may reduce the pedal assist power. Wow these ebike electronics are certainly a steep learning curve