Kalkhoff BS

[No1foxy]

Hi Guys,

I am new to this site, I went to the show on Saturday great day out. I started the ebike thing with a KTM Nuvinci, took it back after 3 weeks as it was making terrible noises. The shop could not fix it so after a row I was given a full refund. I was a little disappointed with the system, as it had a habit of stranding you in the highest gear on steep hills and the motor would cut out. Not much fun pushing it up hills, also the gears were slow to change. At the same time that I brought the KTM I got my wife an AVE TH5, she loves this bike. She wants to have it pimped and painted sparkly pink. Does any body know where I can get the bike painted in the Midlands? I went to 50 cycles after getting my money back and purchased a Kalkhoff BS10, what a different beast to the KTM. It feels so light and responsive, it is fast and I normally only leave it in Eco and boost it to Tour on the hills. Last week I got 65miles from one charge and that was the first charge the battery had from new. We both use the bikes on a daily basis and for leisure rides at the weekend.
Cheers
Phil

 

[Kudoscycles]

Phil,could you please advise which KTM Nuvinci model you had the problem with? I spoke to the KTM importer today and they were not aware of any problems with the Nuvinci model.
I have a customer who is very interested in the KTM Nuvinci and before I place an order on the importers would be useful to have further details of your problems.
Perhaps you could put some dates to your purchase and advise who was the dealer?
I must say that all my involvement with the Nuvinci hub has been positive with almost bomb proof reliability and very quiet operation. One of the Pedelec members described the new Kudos Eiger with TCM crank motor and Nuvinci hub as an absolute gem and £1000 less than the nearest opposition and its UK road legal!!!!
Really interested in further info on your KTM Nuvinci problems.
KudosDave

 

[No1foxy]

It was the Mancini Nuvinci, I got it from the electric transport shop in Cambridge. I was told that the noise was caused by the crank coming loose, but I am not sure how. They could not fix it so I demanded a refund. I don't know why it kept packing up on hills, but when it did the orange just flashed up and down and there was no assistance. This was purchased on 10/08/2013 and returned 4 weeks later. I hope this helps. The frame number was T138550127, I hope this helps.
Phil

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Was the software updated, this resolved one issue we had with the system. The system is on several e bikes including Kalkhoff, KTM, Blue Label (Reise and Muller) etc. So it is generally very good and any problems should be easily fixed otherwise such a wide range of brands would not use it. Enjoy your speed pedelec!

 

[No1foxy]

I don't know if the software was updated as I had the refund before that could be done. I do not doubt that the Nuvinci system is very good, but with the problems that I had I didn't get to try it at its best. From my own point of view the Kalkhoff is a superior piece of kit, it is a lot lighter and more nimble and to my eye the better looking bike. The brakes are better and the gear set is very quite and changes are very slick. I wont say that I would never by a Nuvinci bike but this one is going to have to last me a few years.
Do you know any body who does custom painting of bikes as my wife wants her AVE pimping a bright sparkly pink.
Phil

 

[103Alex1]

Do you know any body who does custom painting of bikes as my wife wants her AVE pimping a bright sparkly pink.
Phil

Might be a bit far for you but these guys come highly recommended by a friend of mine. I'm sure it'd be a 1st for them as a commission

Bob Jackson Cycles

 

[No1foxy]

Thanks for that I will give them a ring in the morning

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Hi.

I work for KTM in the UK, so just thought I'd join in this discussion in the hope of getting some clarity for everyone's benefit.

The bike is a 2013 KTM Macina Nuvinci. The problem as far as we can work out - as its not been sent back to us... with this bike was with the Bosch drive system being noisy... nothing to do with the KTM or Nuvinci parts of the bike. If I've got this wrong it would be good to know.

The problem wasn't serious, it didn't even need to come back to us or go back to Bosch, as the dealer has sorted it, it just appears the time to sort it was longer than you were prepared to wait.

Just as a matter of interest is this the Kalkhoff you purchased?

Kalkhoff Endeavour BS10 XT 50cm Fast Electric Bike

I'd be interested to know how they can say this:

350W Bosch Speed motor, up to 28mph

and "road legal" on the same page, but thats a different debate.

You've said you think its lighter, I can't find any details of the weight anywhere, can you let me know what your bike weighs so I can go back to KTM with feedback.

with regard to your other question, I live round the corner from Bob Jackson, they did some work on one frame for me and it was a disaster, so now for respray work I just take frames to the local powder coaters, its 1/10th of the price and they do a much better job, and there is one in every town, so no need for shipping costs and associated communication problems.

If you'd like to speak to us about the problems with your Bosch unit, you can reply on here, or email me directly on col@flidistribution.co.uk

 

[No1foxy]

I do not know why the KTM has not been sent back to KTM and to be honest I don't care. But just to answer your questions, the Bosch drive was making a lot of noise and when they tried to fix it you could wobble the crank it was so loose. The noise it was making sounded like the chain was snagging on the teeth. It was not just this problem that prompted the demand for a refund, we had put up with terrible customer service, been lied to and just received crap service. When you walk through the door of a shop and spend £4500 on 2 bikes you expect good service. Also I was not prepared to wait a couple of weeks for them to fix the bike, if I spend £2500 on a bike I want it perfect. If you want to know why it has not been returned ask them.
Yes the bike I got from 50 cycles is the BS10 and it is lighter as now I can lift it into the rack with ease, the KTM was heavier as my wife needed to give me a hand.

As far as being told the bike was road legal the guy who I dealt with explained the legal side. I have just re read the 50 cycles advert and can not find the "road legal quote that you claim, but I did find the following statement that I have copied and pasted from their web site under the Technical specs section. "Type Approval Classification L1e light moped. Exceeds the 250 watt / 25kph EN15194 specification so owner should register, insure and follow regulations required for use on UK roads. Registration plate holder can be removed in those territories where these restrictions do not apply" that seems straight forward to me, what do you think?.
Thank you for the info on the painters I will look around again.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I do not know why the KTM has not been sent back to KTM and to be honest I don't care. But just to answer your questions, the Bosch drive was making a lot of noise and when they tried to fix it you could wobble the crank it was so loose. The noise it was making sounded like the chain was snagging on the teeth. It was not just this problem that prompted the demand for a refund, we had put up with terrible customer service, been lied to and just received crap service. When you walk through the door of a shop and spend £4500 on 2 bikes you expect good service. Also I was not prepared to wait a couple of weeks for them to fix the bike, if I spend £2500 on a bike I want it perfect. If you want to know why it has not been returned ask them.

Thanks for clearing that up. I have spoken to the dealer, and I can confirm the bike hasn't been returned to us because it was a simple fix, the delay was caused by them waiting for a special tool from Bosch.

Yes the bike I got from 50 cycles is the BS10 and it is lighter as now I can lift it into the rack with ease, the KTM was heavier as my wife needed to give me a hand.

I can't find anything on-line regarding the weight of the BS10. Which is unusual. I'm just interested to see where they can save weight because the spec would suggest it's actually heavier from what I can work out looking at the individual component weights.

As far as being told the bike was road legal the guy who I dealt with explained the legal side. I have just re read the 50 cycles advert and can not find the "road legal quote that you claim, but I did find the following statement that I have copied and pasted from their web site under the Technical specs section. "Type Approval Classification L1e light moped. Exceeds the 250 watt / 25kph EN15194 specification so owner should register, insure and follow regulations required for use on UK roads. Registration plate holder can be removed in those territories where these restrictions do not apply" that seems straight forward to me, what do you think?.

have you registered and insured it? If not, its not road legal, and if you hit someone or something you could find yourself in very hot water.

So I'm not sure how you feel about that.

 

[103Alex1]

have you registered and insured it? If not, its not road legal, and if you hit someone or something you could find yourself in very hot water.

As you're no doubt well aware it is not possible to register S-Pedelecs in the UK and insurance is also impossible. This has been very extensively discussed on Pedelecs so not going to make a point of that here but suffice to say buyers appear to be well aware of this.

Equally non-road legal and uninsurable are any of the considerably greater number of KTM bikes being used with widely available dongles. So not sure how you feel about that. The Endeavour is a bike constructed to be much more suitable for use on the roads than a dongled bike without eBike mirrors or other strictly regulated components specifically tailored to be suitable for higher speeds and power. I'd actually argue that they are likely considerably safer than a dongled KTM eBike.

 

[No1foxy]

Thanks for clearing that up. I have spoken to the dealer, and I can confirm the bike hasn't been returned to us because it was a simple fix, the delay was caused by them waiting for a special tool from Bosch.

Well they did say that they were waiting for the tool so I gave them 3 working day to sort it. When I phoned I was told that "they had swapped the motor from another bike and that did not fix it" that is when I asked for the refund and spoke to Eddie who dealt with the refund within 2 days.



I can't find anything on-line regarding the weight of the BS10. Which is unusual. I'm just interested to see where they can save weight because the spec would suggest it's actually heavier from what I can work out looking at the individual component weights.

I have weighed the bike on bathroom scales, not ideal but it agreed with what I had read on the internet and without the battery it weighed 19.95 kg. I can't remember what the KTM weighed, but the BS10 does seem to be a lot more nimble. That could be down to the tyres fitted, as it seems to roll better.

have you registered and insured it? If not, its not road legal, and if you hit someone or something you could find yourself in very hot water.

So I'm not sure how you feel about that.

I did notice that you seemed to ignore the clarification that I found about the legal information. As far as the KTM bike is concerned, there was nothing wrong with the package apart from the motor, and it does look good, but from my point of view the Kalkhoff looks better. Beauty after all is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Artstu]

So you had a Bosch related fault on a KTM, but then bought another Bosch bike anyway, did you not worry that the same fault might occur on the new bike?

 

[No1foxy]

The answer to that is obvious if you read the whole thread, my wife has a Bosch, thousands of others have Bosch. The KTM just had a bad motor and like I said if I pay this type of money I want the product to be perfect and I will not accept anything less.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Bosch are very concerned with resolving any problems. I have had to deal with them once and have found them to be very helpful. They have around 60% of market share (Europe) according to figures I have seen. Therefore they value their reputation.

As no-one appears to be legally riding a speed pedelec in the UK we are going to go through the process. The issue which is hardest to overcome is insurance. When we have gone through the process we will share the results. Although this is not a top priority hence not looking to do this until next year. I believe it will take a lot of work but believe the only way to find out is go through entire process. Hopefully this will make the process easier for the future but the best thing needed is strong lobbying for a separate category like Germany (though doubt Government will do this any time soon if at all).

 

[Artstu]

The answer to that is obvious if you read the whole thread, my wife has a Bosch, thousands of others have Bosch. The KTM just had a bad motor and like I said if I pay this type of money I want the product to be perfect and I will not accept anything less.

That hasn't answered my question? so the KTM had a noisy Bosch motor, so you bought a Kalkhoff with a Bosch motor and weren't in the least bit worried about having the same problem on the new bike.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Does not matter how much you pay, you occasionally get problems whether it is a car, bike etc. Nothing is 100% proof. As Artstu says seems strange you get the same make of motor. If there were problems of reliability with Bosch given that 50 brands plus have it the internet would be full of problems. KTM has same Bosch motor as other bikes so all that was needed was a solution.

 

[No1foxy]

Artstu, If you read my reply you will find the answer. I don't really care what standards other people are prepared to accept, as I have stated if it is not up to standard I will reject it.

 

[RobF]

Artstu, If you read my reply you will find the answer. I don't really care what standards other people are prepared to accept, as I have stated if it is not up to standard I will reject it.

Another customer who sounds like a pleasure to deal with.

 

[Artstu]

Artstu, If you read my reply you will find the answer. I don't really care what standards other people are prepared to accept, as I have stated if it is not up to standard I will reject it.

Ah ha, so you spat your dummy out. Well lets just hope the Kalkhoff doesn't go wrong, which is highly likely given the poor bike preparation some customers have had with their Kalkhoff bought from 50 cycles.