Kalkhoff handlebar controller compatibility

[oriteroom]

Does anyone know/have experience of whether the older handlebar switch on the Kalkhoff ProConnect or Agattu can be replaced by the slightly later one as shown in the pictures below?. Are the electronics compatible

Can put full image up if need
Thanks

 

[D8ve]

The first is for a 26 volt system I think the second is 36 if so the answer is not compatible at all.

 

[oriteroom]

Hi D8ve,

The chap has removed it from a 26volt ProConnect S 2010 so it is 26v. But I wondered if the different connections are the same coloured wires. Similarly, will the different 26v controllers work on any Panasonic 26v motor?

Thanks

 

[tillson]

Hi D8ve,

The chap has removed it from a 26volt ProConnect S 2010 so it is 26v. But I wondered if the different connections are the same coloured wires. Similarly, will the different 26v controllers work on any Panasonic 26v motor?

Thanks

My German isn't good enough to decipher this http://www.pro-cycling-golla.de/E-Bike_Teile/Panasonic_26V.html?seiten_id=2 but from what I can tell, there seemed to be different handlebar controllers for different models / year of 26 volt Panasonic motor. Having said that, my 2008 handlebar switch works with a 2011 motor.

Has your controller come from the guy on ebay who is breaking up the Pro Connect S? Someone has just paid him over £100 for the 4 year old 10 Ah battery which has come off it.

 

[oriteroom]

Hi tillson

Yep, that's the guy. I've been in touch with him by email outside of ebay about scrapping his Proconnect S and he gave me first refusal on the switch before he sticks it on eBay. He was already in the process of taking the motor off, which he is going to put on eBay. When he said it was an 2010/11 S I thought it would have an older switch on it, which I'm looking to replace of my wife's standard 2008 ProConnect. Her's is susceptible to slight water ingress in the rain, so we have to cover with a plastic bag in the rain. However, when he sent a piccy, it was a newer digital display one, hence my enquiry on here.

What surprised me was that he was scrapping a 2011 ProConnect S , and asked him if it had had heavy sevice. He said it had only covered 6000 Kms! I told him our three bikes have covered 11,000, 9,000' and 8,000 miles plus with only a chain replacement. I know yours has done even more. He said his ordinary bike mechanics were 'grumbling' badly which his local bike shop hadn't manage to sort out (or p'raps want to) and trouble with front hydraulic brake. I reckon in your hands, or mine we'd not be scrapping it. Reckon it just wanted new chain and p'raps motor gear wheel replaced (turned around) and new cassette maybe.

Are the handlebar plug fitting on the motor the same for your later motor compared with the earlier one?

Best regards.

 

[oriteroom]

Hi tillson again,

Thanks also for the link. Had a look and you're right and it seems the LED and LCD controllers are not compatible is my crude translation via Google translate is right. They say to check motor number to be sure. However, you seemed to have no trouble using an older switch on a newer motor? Yep, the motor went for just over £100. There were two other recently, one at £100, and another at £83. I got the £83 one to replace the one on the oldest diamond frame ProConnect (24 'spoker' wheel,as well) which is down to 4lights on the cell test but it still takes 9amp/hr charge flat to full.

Ooops meant battery went for 100 above!

 

[tillson]

The 2008 handlebar switch plugged into the 2011 motor without any modifications. The plug and socket were a perfect match.

I have been communicating with him outside of ebay too and I have guided him through the process of removing the motor. Being an S motor it doesn't really interest me but I must admit that I am curious as to why he is scrapping the bike. If the battery is in fairly good condition and the motor works, I would have thought that the rest of the bike can be made serviceable. He sent me a copy of the original receipt from 50 Cycles for £2200, dated late 2010, so I think that he is honest but naive about the value of his bike. It will be interesting to see how much the S class motor sells for.

 

[D8ve]

You can derestrict the Panasonic motor on my kalhoff.
I could do it quite quickly and it would assist up to quite high speeds.
How much is it then worth with 36 volt 12 amp five light battery?.
I did it as a test on my BH it's quite simple and reversible.
With a little effort I could make a fixing to swap between modes easily?

 

[tillson]

You can derestrict the Panasonic motor on my kalhoff.
I could do it quite quickly and it would assist up to quite high speeds.
How much is it then worth with 36 volt 12 amp five light battery?.
I did it as a test on my BH it's quite simple and reversible.
With a little effort I could make a fixing to swap between modes easily?

Hi Dave,

Do you mean de-restrict the Panasonic motor by altering the gear ratios? For example by fitting a larger motor sprocket and smaller rear wheel sprocket? I have also heard a rumour that the 250 Watt unit can be de-restricted by fitting an electrical shunt to something within it. I remember it being discussed on here, but didn't pay much attention at the time. Is it the shunt method which you are referring to?

I believe that the S motor is fundamentally different to the standard "250 Watt" unit. The S class motor is "350 Watts" and has a different software fill which raises the cut off speed by a considerable margin.

I relied on flecc's valuation formula when I bought and sold Gringo's Agattu. As you know, it's the battery which makes potential buyers nervous. I have mentioned more than once that my original Panasonic battery lasted for something like 17000 miles / 6 years. But potential buyers will be sceptical and this will depress the value. I think that a correctly priced second hand Kalkhoff / Panasonic would make an unbeatable buy. For a few hundred quid, the buyer would be getting a fantastic bike. Even if a new battery was needed, it would still be very good value and well worth serious consideration.

I have now replaced my original battery with a 26 Volt 18 Ah (I'll do a review sometime but to be meaningful it really needs 2 - 3 years of use / experience). The 2011 motor seems to be much more powerful than the 2008 model and it instantly halved the range of my bike when I fitted it, hence the need for the bigger capacity battery. The extra power is very nice though!

 

[D8ve]

Tillson what I did was to spoof the speed signal. This means the assist would keeps on going as it thinks the bike is going slower than it was.
Potential for assistance at 50+kph with the drive?
The kallhoff has the 8 speed hub drive so a nice quick combo.
If you keep it legal it has huge range potential but slower than my Recumbent at 50 mile + trips.

 

[tillson]

Tillson what I did was to spoof the speed signal. This means the assist would keeps on going as it thinks the bike is going slower than it was.
Potential for assistance at 50+kph with the drive?
The kallhoff has the 8 speed hub drive so a nice quick combo.
If you keep it legal it has huge range potential but slower than my Recumbent at 50 mile + trips.

I was forgetting that your 36 Volt motor uses an external sensor to detect speed. My experience is limited to the types which rely on the motor's output shaft for speed sensing.

 

[oriteroom]

Hi tillson,

See Gary has now listed his motor and controller on eBay. Looks like for 6000 km (4000 miles) his motor has had a hard life. None of my motors are looking like it, each with more than double the mileage, albeit in good weather.

 

[pontylad]

Sorry to jump on your thread. I have been watching the motor on ebay as i live close to the seller.
I have a Kalkhoff pro connect s 2009 model fitted with the old style controller on the handlebars.
According to the log book i had with the bike (it was secondhand) it is fitted with a 250 w motor? Will this one that Gary is selling (350 w) be a straight swap? And is it straight forward and simply plug and play?
If it is would it be a worthwhile exercise?
Thanks,
Simon

 

[D8ve]

Simon
The physical swap is fairly easy?
I don't know about the electic comparability?
Why not de restrict your current bike?
Personally I dodnt know if there is a big difference changing motors.
the power increase would only have a small positive effect on top speed and hill climbing. But my 26 volt BH managed fine in Bristol and Bath.
The range as is is ok but will fall with de restriction though.
The higher power motor would cut range further still.
I bought a broken 26v bike and upgraded to the later 36 volt system.
That did make some difference but not a huge change.
(I had a spare 36 volt system)


D8ve

 

[pontylad]

Hi Dave thanks for the reply. The motor has a slight speed increase of the larger drive sprocket at the motor side but to further de restrict would mean modding the shunt is this correct? I'm assuming the motor would have to one off and stripped down to do this?
Range is fine as the bike came with 2 battery's one standard and the other I believe is 18 ah so has plenty of range at present. They will do about 50 miles on full assist! Carry the spare in the panier. Just want like everyone else the max output from the motor.
Will see how much. The one on eBay gets to! Not paying silly money. What do you mean by falling into de restriction?
Thanks
Simon

 

[D8ve]

Simon
The alternative derestriction is to spoof the speed sensors.
Flecc has photos of mine on his site on how to do this.
The greater the higher the speed is set the more power it will draw so the range will fall.
I like range and bionic cycling so mostly used them on low power.
Despite being fat fifty and asthmatic. When I am ok I am faster on my recumbent than a normal pedelec. Can even manage over 100 miles at 15mph.
When I am sick, well I haven't been on any bike for 13 weeks.
If I wanted max power there's some seriously fast 1300cc motorcycles.
Running de restricted has potential to cause serious problems if there's an accident.
i was legal when I was hit by a 4*4. The driver was done and I'm lined up for some compensation. Better than 3 months unpaid with broken arm and prosecution.

 

[oriteroom]

Simon,

My original interest in this followed on from Gary the seller originally selling the battery off the bike. I also have a 2009 older ProConnect S with the older controller. I was really looking for the old type controller for an even older Proconect that my wife has. After he sent me a picture of the controller when he got it off the bike, I couldn't convince myself that the LCD controller was compatible with the 250w motor, nor vice versa. I looked at the German site that tillson identified and concluded they were not compatible. So I tHink to change you would probably need to change both motor and controller, but I could be wrong. Should you change motor and end up with an old type controller 250w motor going spare, I'd be interested in buying it.

Best regards.

 

[D8ve]

Mike
Tillson might have a spare controller if you ask nicely.
I bought a kalkoff pro with 26 volt system an no battery.
I split the cost with Tillson and he had the motor and controller. I put the system from my bust BH race on it.
Check Ebay etc for bike with duff battery,s

 

[pontylad]

D8ve can you point me in the direction of Fleccs site as i cant find it!
Would like to see the derestriction mod before i go any further. Will see how the bidding goes for the motor and controller as i also double checked with 50 cycles who confirmed that i require both.
Thanks all.

 

[D8ve]

performance
www.flecc.co.uk/p/performance.html

This link should take you to Fleccs Panasonic reference site.
The assistance with the spoofed motor carries on well over 25 mph but you need to help it do that.