Latest from Boris

[flecc]

Our new Mayor of London now wants to allow motorcycles in bus lanes as well as bicycles. Already 3000 cyclists have signed a petition against this and it will be presented next week, saying it's a dangerous mix due to motorcycle speeds.

That's my view as well, but what do you think?

 

[john]

This isn't really answering your question, but....

I was wondering what it is like cycling in bus lanes. I haven't needed to do this very often but when I do come across a bus I try to keep well away from it as I do with lorries.

 

[flecc]

This isn't really answering your question, but....

I was wondering what it is like cycling in bus lanes. I haven't needed to do this very often but when I do come across a bus I try to keep well away from it as I do with lorries.

I'm happy with it John, and the bus drivers seem happy also. That's probably partly due to the bus stops being very closely spaced in much of the area where I cycle, so they don't get up much speed between them anyway.

I've also got cases where there's a cycle lane between the bus lane on the left and other traffic lanes on the right. I know these scare the hell out of many cyclists, but I think as long as one stays cool they aren't a problem. Where those are they have to be used instead of the bus lane and bus drivers sometimes hang back rather than pass on the inside, but I always give them a left hand wave-through so as not to hold them up, being a firm believer in public transport priority over private road users.

The problem I see with motorcycles in the bus lane is the speeds some use in town, and I think there's plenty of possibilities of cyclist/motorcyclist collisions, especially since few cyclists have mirrors. Having been a lifelong motorcyclist myself, I know how suddenly 50/60 mph or more is available in quick throttle squirts between points, a dodgy mix with bikes doing 15 mph and less in a restricted lane width.
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[HarryB]

Our new Mayor of London now wants to allow motorcycles in bus lanes as well as bicycles. Already 3000 cyclists have signed a petition against this and it will be presented next week, saying it's a dangerous mix due to motorcycle speeds.

That's my view as well, but what do you think?

This issue has been around a while and Ken Livingstone dismissed the idea. The selfish side of me says no but I have to accept that all the trials say it has proved a safe mix, even safer overall than them not using them. You cannot argue with that except Ken Livingstone said the trials in London were flawed (but they seem to work elsewhere in Bristol etc). I suppose we should consider the safety of motorcyclists as well.

In general I find motorcyclist very selfish in London with more than 90% deliberately moving into the advanced stop lanes and thus making it less safe for us. The other negative side is it does remove the advantage we have (as I heard a few motorcyclists at work discuss) and thus encouraging more onto the road.

 

[flecc]

Yes, the trials have indicated it's safe Hal. I'm just nervous that with an open season with all motorcyclists aware of the free access, that could change.

We're all agreed about the unsafe nature of the huge speed differential of cars and bicycles on trunk roads, and I don't want that same risk in bus lanes. At least when they're mixed in with other traffic the bikers are constrained to some extent, being regularly slowed.
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[HarryB]

Personally I would like to see Taxis banned from bus lanes as well. For the life of me I cannot see why one person using personal transport should be given an advantage over other drivers. They are often the worst at trying to run you out of a bus lane as well. But then again I would replace bus lanes with high occupancy lanes as we are wasting hundreds of miles of roads in this country at the moment (except for the very centre of London as that is gridlocked with buses anyway). Sorry being Londoncentric again.

 

[flecc]

I certainly agree about banning the taxis from bus lanes, as you say that's just another private use, often with just as inefficient a use of space as a private car and much less safe for cyclists.

Having suffered ferrying others into work at times in the past, I'm not too enamoured of the multi-occupancy idea. With some passengers I'd rather be in a separate taxi style driving compartment, and the usual private car can be like a prison cell when stuck with some people.
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[Chris_Bike]

I certainly agree about banning the taxis from bus lanes, as you say that's just another private use, often with just as inefficient a use of space as a private car and much less safe for cyclists.
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I disagree. taxis are a form (allbeit expensive) of public transport. It is far preferable that several thousand rich businessmen (and others) use a pool of taxis rather than have their chaufeurs/cars clogging up the city.

On the subject of Boris, in my view he's a buffoon, which can be amusing, but is not conducive to running what is arguably the most important capital city in Europe.

 

[keithhazel]

On the subject of Boris, in my view he's a buffoon,.

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careful what you say or you will have buffoons sueing you slander and defamation of character

 

[frank9755]

I'm happy with it John, and the bus drivers seem happy also. That's probably partly due to the bus stops being very closely spaced in much of the area where I cycle, so they don't get up much speed between them anyway.

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My experience is that most bus drivers are pretty considerate and will normally wait to let you finish overtaking before they pull out from a stop.
You do get the odd cyclist-hater who will accelerate to overtake then cut in to their stop in front of you, forcing you to carry out an unnecessary overtake from a standing start.

The worst things though are the bendy-buses. They are the most frightening vehicle on the road because they are so long. When one overtakes it feels like it is never coming to an end. I have been forced off the road a couple of times by bendy buses pulling in to a stop. I don't think it is the that the driver means to be hostile, just their vehicle is so unwieldy.

Back to the main topic, I signed the petition against motorcycles in bus lanes because I read the view on the CTC site which says that motorbikes are...

"Dangerous to themselves and to others. Motorcyclists place not only themselves at risk, but they are also disproportionately hazardous to pedestrians' and cyclists' safety as well. Per mile travelled, PTWs are about 1.5 as likely as cars to be involved in collisions which cause serious injury to cyclists, twice as likely to be involved in causing them serious injuries and about three times as likely to be involved in killing them"

Frank

 

[frank9755]

In general I find motorcyclist very selfish in London with more than 90% deliberately moving into the advanced stop lanes and thus making it less safe for us.

Yes, I notice that too.

The worst area of confrontation with motorbikes on my daily journey is Admiralty Arch at the end of The Mall, entering Trafalgar Square. Where the road narrows to go under the arch, there is a cycle lane. Motor bikes always use it - which they're not supposed to but which is not necessarily a problem - but often cars encroach so the lane is too narrow. Then the motorbike gets stuck and just blocks the gap, holding up all the cyclists, who would have been able to get through! It's a frequent cause of arguments in the morning.

 

[HarryB]

This is a bit Londoncentric but here it
is anyway Cycling In London Continues To Rise | BikeRadar.com

 

[flecc]

That's good news, the growth seems unstoppable and next year should see it reaching double the starting figure.

Londoncentric maybe, but a good example for the rest of the country's cities.

If Manchester wants to achieve the same and pro-rata levels of expenditure on cycling facilities (£55 millions London current year), they'll have to accept that congestion charge to raise the cash.
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[HarryB]

At last - Flecc and Boris have something in common...

Get a bike helmet to get ahead - or maybe not - Telegraph

...at the risk of opening the great cycle helmet debate, sorry.

 

[flecc]

At last - Flecc and Boris have something in common...

Oh that's not the only thing by far Hal, I'll always judge fairly, and I'm pleased that he's keeping Ken's increased cycling budget of £55 millions this year.

Just disappointed with the speed with which he's backed away from some of his simplistic pre-election promises. He might at least have gone through the motions of living up to them.

One thing that surprises me, nothing to do with Boris, is the silence from the motoring lobby about that £55 millions. In today's high cost motoring climate I might have expected a fuss from the long suffering motorist.
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[HarryB]

I suppose like me they are confused about how much £55 million is and far it would go. Maybe it doesn't seem so much money and not worth kicking up a fuss about. What would £55 million buy? I would like some of the junctions tidied up. For example I have one 3 lane junction where the left lane filters left (but not at a right angle, more like a slip road). Of course as a cyclist wanting to go straight on you have to wait in line 2 with cars on your left whizzing past you as well as juggling the traffic light grand prix when they turn green. An advanced stop lane went in but it does little to help. One example where a traffic island would help protect you. Manor House has a multi-laned junction which is pretty scary. One time I went through that junction the police were trying to remove a cyclist from under the wheels of a lorry. I assumed he was still alive...

We could put in advanced green lights for cyclists. The phasing of lights is so slow, particularly the pedestrian green man going out, to the traffic lights going green (30 seconds +), that you could get a good many seconds for the cyclist to get away safely off without endangering anybody. I am sure as cyclists we could all come up with many ways to make roads safer for us - lots of them wouldn't cost a great deal. Apparently the councils and TFL employ cyclist consultants (Ken's consultant lived near Croyden then ) we could start by making them do some work.

 

[flecc]

The phasing of lights is so slow, particularly the pedestrian green man going out, to the traffic lights going green (30 seconds +), that you could get a good many seconds for the cyclist to get away safely off without endangering anybody. I am sure as cyclists we could all come up with many ways to make roads safer for us - lots of them wouldn't cost a great deal.

That's very true, on one set of traffic lights in my area I'm able to take off after the pedestrian phase during the all red period and get through the long pinch point ahead and into the cycle lane beyond before the first cars arrive. That's not for speed, but because it's safer for me and better for the drivers not to be held up by a slower bike through that point, so we all win.
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[simonbarnett]

Too many unchallenged assumptions here, in my view. :

1. congestion charging is not necessarily a good thing as it's been abused into a revenue raiser and distorted by green targets (now abandoned?), which may be commendable but may have the opposite effect on congestion.

2, aren't we meant to have some kinship with motorcyclists as 2 wheelers? There are just as many selfish cyclists and car drivers as motorcyclists, though couriers of all types are in a league of their own.

3. written comments are libel not slander - defammation is only one ground.


4. there's nothing wrong with a London bias on this for the widest experiences.

 

[flecc]

1. congestion charging is not necessarily a good thing as it's been abused into a revenue raiser and distorted by green targets (now abandoned?), which may be commendable but may have the opposite effect on congestion.

Agreed on the way it's been abused, but I'd rather have it for such advantages it's been left with than not have it and go back to the old way.

2, aren't we meant to have some kinship with motorcyclists as 2 wheelers? There are just as many selfish cyclists and car drivers as motorcyclists, though couriers of all types are in a league of their own.

No. How many wheels is irrelevant, there's very little in common, even the nature of the vulnerability being very different. I'm a near lifelong motorcyclist as well as cyclist, but an open house on the bus lanes would be a big mistake. Remember, it includes those couriers, and the cycling ones are bad enough as it is. Wide speed differentials should always be avoided.

3. written comments are libel not slander - defammation is only one ground.

Of course.

4. there's nothing wrong with a London bias on this for the widest experiences.

Agreed, especially as this subject has a related current relevance to Manchester and implied future relevance to all other cities worldwide.
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