LiFePo4 battery latest

[Citrus]

As some of you may know I converted my Kinetic framed hybrid bike to electric using the Alien 24v 10A kit. I had some teething troubles with it (duff first battery, failed controller, poor waterproofing). This has all now been rectified by having a replacement controller housed in a waterproof enclosure from Maplins, a new rack on my bike to hold everything and, most importantly, changing the battery (the replacement works fine - just wanted more range). The battery I bought is a LiFePo4 from Li Ping - a 24v 16A battery. The first few charges and full discharges were promising - but not brilliant. The original battery would give me 20 miles of assisted power then die fairly suddenly. The LiFePo4 initially gave me 25 miles (mostly full power with me helping a bit), then 27 miles, then 29 miles. The last full charge has just given me 37 miles with the battery helping a lot. I think this is fantastic and I am well please. The discharge characteristics are completely different from the original Phylion battery, with the battery display meter being much more reliable for some reason. All housed in a waterproof enclosure from Maplins - brilliant.

I will post pictures of the new set-up soon. My Agattu wave 49cm will be on Ebay from tomorrow now my home built effort is reliable.

 

[Blew it]

Hi Citrus,

This is one of the problems with 24 volt systems, a much higher amp/hour capacity is needed to give a range comparative to a 36 volt system. I have an Alien Lynx folder which uses the same 10 ah Phylion battery as used on your original configuration, and it's only good for around 18 to 20 miles.

The last time I was in contact with Li Ping back in July, he told me he was still unable to source 5 ah cells. The packs he is now building use 3 and 4 ah cells and therefore are larger and heavier. I noticed you have your saddle quite high, are you going to carry the Ping on a seat post carrier?. I'm sure all will be revealed when you post some pics. Looking forward to seeing them.

All the best

Bob

 

[keithhazel]

As some of you may know I converted my Kinetic framed hybrid bike to electric using the Alien 24v 10A kit. I had some teething troubles with it (duff first battery, failed controller, poor waterproofing). This has all now been rectified by having a replacement controller housed in a waterproof enclosure from Maplins, a new rack on my bike to hold everything and, most importantly, changing the battery (the replacement works fine - just wanted more range). The battery I bought is a LiFePo4 from Li Ping - a 24v 16A battery. The first few charges and full discharges were promising - but not brilliant. The original battery would give me 20 miles of assisted power then die fairly suddenly. The LiFePo4 initially gave me 25 miles (mostly full power with me helping a bit), then 27 miles, then 29 miles. The last full charge has just given me 37 miles with the battery helping a lot. I think this is fantastic and I am well please. The discharge characteristics are completely different from the original Phylion battery, with the battery display meter being much more reliable for some reason. All housed in a waterproof enclosure from Maplins - brilliant.

I will post pictures of the new set-up soon. My Agattu wave 49cm will be on Ebay from tomorrow now my home built effort is reliable.

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what reasons where behind not being satisfied with the agatta citrus ? and getting another bike,i thought the agatta's where the best bike on the road at the moment.

 

[Citrus]

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what reasons where behind not being satisfied with the agatta citrus ? and getting another bike,i thought the agatta's where the best bike on the road at the moment.

It's not that I'm not satisfied with the Agattu - I have done a little over 2000 miles on it - it is just I prefer a throttle-controlled ebike for when I feel lazy or tired. Now that my homebuilt effort is reliable and can manage over 35 miles on a single charge, I no longer need the Agattu. It has sat in my shed unused for the last 4 weeks.

Not sure about the best bikes on the road comment - I think it is one of the best bikes along with the Wisper and Cytronex - but it depends on what you want really.

 

[flecc]

It's not that I'm not satisfied with the Agattu - I have done a little over 2000 miles on it - it is just I prefer a throttle-controlled ebike for when I feel lazy or tired. Now that my homebuilt effort is reliable and can manage over 35 miles on a single charge, I now longer need the Agattu. It has sat in my shed unused for the last 4 weeks.

Not sure about the best bikes on the road comment - I think it is one of the best bikes along with the Wisper and Cytronex - but it depends on what you want really.

That last phrase says it all, and it's why I stress it's so important to try both the Panasonic system and hub motors before deciding. They are very different in many ways and arguably should be classed as different vehicle types. For some it's a Marmite thing, either loving or hating the Panasonic system.
.

 

[Citrus]

Pictures of my re-vamped bike

Here are some pictures of my homemade hybrid bike with an Alien hub motor and controller and a Ping LiFePo4 24v 16Ah battery. The controller and battery are now housed in waterproof enclosures from Maplins. Cabling into these boxes are through rubber grommets sealed with silicon sealant. The controller switch is a 24v marine isolation switch bought from eBay. Everything is very waterproof now and the last battery charge lasted for 37 miles and should still improve a bit. There are a lot of photos, so I will spread them over the next couple of posts. Comments/queries welcome.

Left view

Right view

Battery (big box), controller (small box), seat-post rack and some bits salavaged from the Alien kit

Isolation switch for power

 

[Citrus]

More photos

Here are a few more - the results are not as elegent looking as the Alien kit, but I feel it is far more durable and the original Alien battery fits it the battery box and can be carried as a spare, giving me about 60 miles range.

Wiring from controller to battery

Waterproofed entry point of cables to the controller

Bike head-on

Throttle control (sort of) using a rubber "O" ring that provides enough tension to put the thumb throttle at any setting and leave it there.

 

[Citrus]

more pics of lights etc.

Handlebar set-up

Front lights x2 LED Lenser P7 torches and x1 LED flasher not shown in pic on right handlebar end

Battery handlebar indicator which seems to be far mor accurate with my LiFePo4 battery. 5 lights on for the first 15 miles. 5/4 lights from 15-25 miles, 4 lights from 25-30 miles, 4/3 lights from 30 to 32 miles, 3 lights 32-34 miles, 3/2 lights 34-35 miles, 2 lights battery nearly gone, about 1 to 1/5 miles. Switching off at this point for 5 minutes and the battery recovers to 3 lights for about another 0.5 mile.

 

[Citrus]

testing battery distance

I am just trying this out in my gargage just now. I have my bike front wheel lifted off the ground the throttle on full. Obviously no rider and no friction on the front wheel. The battery is my 24v 16aH LiFePo4, and an 8Fun 250w 24v front motor. So far it has being going for 2 hours 6 minutes, 35.5 miles covered, battery indicator still showing 5 lights. Any guesses how far it will go? I'll report back when the battery is exhausted.

 

[keithhazel]

I am just trying this out in my gargage just now. I have my bike front wheel lifted off the ground the throttle on full. Obviously no rider and no friction on the front wheel. The battery is my 24v 16aH LiFePo4, and an 8Fun 250w 24v front motor. So far it has being going for 2 hours 6 minutes, 35.5 miles covered, battery indicator still showing 5 lights. Any guesses how far it will go? I'll report back when the battery is exhausted.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------what exactly are you trying achieve doing this ?....a battery that is unable to run something small say a childs toy is still capable of powering a torch for many hours due to no strain moving parts, so a wheel lifted off the ground if it achieved 199 miles would that be good ? useful ?...im not trying to be funny here im just trying to work out the reasoning

 

[Danny-K]

I agree with Keith - such an experiment demonstrates nowt - zilch!

When trying to completely exhaust my battery when first conditioning it, (and with only one light left), and pulling the bike towards me on to it's side stand, so that the rear wheel was lifted off the ground and operating the throttle only, the motor propelled the wheel round and round with gusto, whirring and whirring, in the silence of the garage, resolutely refusing to die - yet there was insufficient power left to offer any rider assistance, to all intents and purposes the battery was exhausted, dead.

However after 10 to fifteen minutes of this with no sign whatsoever of the battery calling-it-a-day I got bored and took the battery indoors to set it up for it's conditioning charge, still with enough power in it to propel the wheel off the ground - but nothing else.

"Report back when it's exhausted", Citrus?
- That'll be two weeks from today then.

 

[flecc]

I have to concur. I ran a Torq 1 front motor off the ground on a low battery to try to empty it and eight hours
later it was still running fine. With no load they just run and run, using next to nothing.
.

 

[Citrus]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------what exactly are you trying achieve doing this ?....a battery that is unable to run something small say a childs toy is still capable of powering a torch for many hours due to no strain moving parts, so a wheel lifted off the ground if it achieved 199 miles would that be good ? useful ?...im not trying to be funny here im just trying to work out the reasoning

Well I wasn't sure whether it would be useful or not, just trying it out. Guess it is a waste of time. Although surely there are some moving parts? - I mean the battery is turning a wheel and running a motor - not lighting a torch. Bike is already at 90+ miles so I will just stop this little experiment.

 

[wibble]

Front lights x2 LED Lenser P7 torches and x1 LED flasher not shown in pic on right handlebar end

 

[keithhazel]

I have to concur. I ran a Torq 1 front motor off the ground on a low battery to try to empty it and eight hours
later it was still running fine. With no load they just run and run, using next to nothing.
.

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knowing didly squat about batteries..and a few other things.. i wonder if running it flat without any resistance thats its meant to have, may actually damage the battery and take it to a point thats leaves it with no base...(not a great description)....a bit like a marathon runner who after 26 miles he could run more but that would be to a dangerous exhaustion level to many that leaves nothing in the body

 

[keithhazel]

Well I wasn't sure whether it would be useful or not, just trying it out. Guess it is a waste of time. Although surely there are some moving parts? - I mean the battery is turning a wheel and running a motor - not lighting a torch. Bike is already at 90+ miles so I will just stop this little experiment.

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out of curiosity is your agatta on e-bay as could not see it, be interesting to see what a second hand one will go for..

 

[flecc]

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knowing didly squat about batteries..and a few other things.. i wonder if running it flat without any resistance thats its meant to have, may actually damage the battery and take it to a point thats leaves it with no base...(not a great description)....a bit like a marathon runner who after 26 miles he could run more but that would be to a dangerous exhaustion level to many that leaves nothing in the body

No, it wouldn't damage it Keith. The low cutout point is on voltage and will operate at the same point no
matter how lightly the current is being used. On your Quando it's 32 volts.
.

 

[Citrus]

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out of curiosity is your agatta on e-bay as could not see it, be interesting to see what a second hand one will go for..

Here it is here Keith Kalkhoff Agattu 49cm Wave frame pedelec on eBay, also, Bikes, Cycling, Sporting Goods (end time 26-Oct-08 14:34:37 GMT)

 

[Tiberius]

Hi Citrus,

As others have suggested, running the motor at high speed but with no load does not draw much current from the battery. There isn't much power dissipation in the motor either so it should all just run and run.

If you want to see current draw, then run it at low speed against the brakes - but don't do it for long.

Out of interest, what's the handling like on the bike with the weight distribution like that?

Nick

 

[keithhazel]

Here it is here Keith Kalkhoff Agattu 49cm Wave frame pedelec on eBay, also, Bikes, Cycling, Sporting Goods (end time 26-Oct-08 14:34:37 GMT)

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thanks for that i couldnt find it earlier, minor question, when it says it "has the remainder of the warranty"......does the warranty NOT carry forward to a second owner on electric bikes ?....this has come up a few times so not sure if 50 cycles have some special deal where it does carry forward, tempting if so