Looking at BPM kit from Ciclotek

[Elecman]

Still looking at the possibility of a kit as well as buying a ready built bike.
My shortlist for bikes at the moment is looking like Woosh CDL/ Big Bear or one of the BPM Kudos bikes like the Tornado.
However, I still like the idea of using my ideal bike (a 700c wheeled touring style bike) with a fairly high power/ torque motor. However, I am not too keen on the hassle and risk involved in importing this from China.
I have found this kit from ciclotek in Spain.

http://www.ciclotekstore.eu/b2c/producto/9822078/2/bpm-cst-e-bike-motor-kit-36v-15-ah-ck-battery-

It' the BPM kit which after reading through the forum sounds like just the ticket for the hills around me.
Which should work out around the £750 mark, which leaves me either £2-300 to get a donor bike to fit it on, or I have an existing steel framed touring bike which I could just upgrade with the cash. Either way I think I could make a really nice bike for £900/ £1000.

Question is;
* Does this kit have everything I need ? (Torque arms) - I would also like a proper throttle - not sure how much they would be to go with this kit.
* Would this be noticeably more powerful than something like a Woosh Big Bear.
* Is it worth the extra hassle over just buying a bike.

The main reason for me over not going straight for something like the Woosh bike is not too keen on the looks of the bike, I would rather have rear wheel drive, I would rather have a 700c style hybrid/ touring bike, and I would prefer something a bit more powerful if possible.

Your opinions would be appreciated.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

That kit includes a Bafang CST motor, not the BPM. The CST is much better for a rear motor. The picture shows a 14 amp controller, which isn't enough for that motor. You need a 30 amp one for serious hill-climbing and a battery to suit. The battery that they supply would be good for 20 amps max. You should check the controller details. Also. those racks hold the battery too high and too far back. It won't be too pleasant to ride with a rear motor too. It'll work, but the steering becomes less precise.

There's no advantage in a 700C touring bike when you have a powerful motor like a BPM. You might as well get a comfy MTB with suspension. Here's one I just put together for a friend.

Donor bike from Ebay £110
Forks from car boot sale £3 (not really necessary)
BPM kit from China £200
12ah LifePO4 high discharge battery from China £250
Bag from car boot sale £1
DIY rack £7
Torque arm £5
total $576

End result 25mph and very good hill-climbing, range 30 to 40 miles.

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi Elecman,

An eZee kit may be more expensive than the option suggested above, but it comes with all you need, supplied from the UK and has a 2 year warranty.

See more details here http://cyclezee.com/ezee-conversion-kits.html

You can also read a members review via a link in this thread http://pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/my-thoughts-on-the-ezee-mk2-250-watt-kit.16936/

 

[jackhandy]

Donor bike from Ebay £110
Forks from car boot sale £3 (not really necessary)
BPM kit from China £200
12ah LifePO4 high discharge battery from China £250
Bag from car boot sale £1
DIY rack £7
Torque arm £5
total $576

End result 25mph and very good hill-climbing, range 30 to 40 miles.
]

Assuming this utilises a 30a controller, for 25mph, can your average Joe really expect 30 to 40 miles from a 12ah battery?

My Ezee-equipped bike has a 20a controller & a 14ah battery & I wouldn't expect any more than 30 to 40 miles on a reasonably hilly ride.

 

[Elecman]

Hi both options look great, although I'm guessing the kit from china has a bit more oomf, which would be great.
D8veh the kit you have mentioned above you sourced for your friend looks ideal, although I dont mind paying extra for a CST motor to be able to fit a cassette on the rear. Looking at the battery, I maybe probably try and to fit it into the frame in a bag or similar.
My main problem is ordering this from China. I am worried that I will screw up and get the wrong items or miss something off.

 

[Elecman]

Regarding the range, I don't expect to need to do journeys longer than 15 - 20 miles, so this looks more than adequate for me.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Assuming this utilises a 30a controller, for 25mph, can your average Joe really expect 30 to 40 miles from a 12ah battery?

My Ezee-equipped bike has a 20a controller & a 14ah battery & I wouldn't expect any more than 30 to 40 miles on a reasonably hilly ride.

I built the bike for Forum Member Saneagle, who is about 110kg. He hasn't been out for a bike ride or done any other exercise for at least four months. We went out for a fairly hilly 30 mile ride, pedalling hard at first because we were going to go a bit further, but after about 20 miles he was getting tired so we shortened it. We'd both used about 4 aH for the first 20 miles, but the final 10 miles was the continuous, often steep, climb out of Ironbridge gorge. We throttled the final few miles in an attempt to use up the rest of the battery. We both used about 9 aH. His battery was still showing over 38v. The last time we did the same journey, it was very windy, and we both used 11aH.
I think that you'd have to be pretty lazy to use any more than that. Weight makes a big difference too, but 110 kg is about as heavy as you get.

You should put a wattmeter on your battery to see what it actually gives. I can guarantee that it won't give 14 aH at 20 amps. How much does it sag at 20 amps? My guess is 3 to 4 volts.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Hi both options look great, although I'm guessing the kit from china has a bit more oomf, which would be great.
D8veh the kit you have mentioned above you sourced for your friend looks ideal, although I dont mind paying extra for a CST motor to be able to fit a cassette on the rear. Looking at the battery, I maybe probably try and to fit it into the frame in a bag or similar.
My main problem is ordering this from China. I am worried that I will screw up and get the wrong items or miss something off.

As long as you order the right stuff, it's rare to get problems. You have to tick the boxes for the right options too. All you have to do is list up the things you've selected here, and we can check them. The CST motor needs a substantial dish in the wheel that you have to do yourself. I don't know if that's the same with the Spanish supplier - probably. The expensive things are the motor and battery. If something went wrong with your order, and you got the wrong thing, you can always sell them on (probably at a profit). If something didn't work, you have to order again, for which the overall cost can still be cheaper than alternatives. The advantage of the Ezee kit is that everything is ready to go and plugs together. With the Chines stuff, there's always wiring and adjustments to make. You still get over 20 mph and good climbing power. If you don't like risk, it's a better option. I'd get the front motor, so that you can balance it with a rack battery. Front motors are OK up to about 25 amps.

 

[trex]

Are there good alternatives to 8-Fun BPM-CST?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Are there good alternatives to 8-Fun BPM-CST?

Yes. I'm running a Xofo clone at the moment. It's 250 rpm at 36v so a bit slower than the 270 rpm Bafang. It's identical from the outside. Xofo do a very nice kit with waterproof connectors, LCD etc, and the pod-type frame battery.

MXUS also sell a clone. Andrew (Oxygen) is using them in his pedicabs and other trikes.

The clones are cheaper than the Bafang.

 

[trex]

can you remember how much you paid for your XOFO CST?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

can you remember how much you paid for your XOFO CST?

$130 for the motor
$98 for two controllers, one LCD plus waterproof harness.
$90 shipping

So £190 for that lot plus about £30 duty etc.

 

[Elecman]

What will the performance of the Ezee kit be like compared to the CST 500w running with a suitable high capacity 36vor 48v battery and controller that I could get from China ?
This kit looks as though it is coming in at approx £850 with a 14ah battery.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

On the flat, you'll not notice a lot of difference. It's only on the very steep hills where the 30 amps makes a difference. Basically, there's an exact proportional relationship between current and climbing power provide that the motor is designed to take the current. Of course the battery also goes down in direct relationship to the current. 30 amps is only necessary if you're 100kg +. If you're only 80 kg, 25 amps would feel the same as the 100kg rider with 30 amps. For me at 100kg, 20 amps is OK for 20% gradient hills, which covers most of them, but for the exceptionally steep 30% ones, I need 30 amps. That should give you some idea of what current you need at 36V.


Having said all that, I started on a basic 15 amp 250w motor, and I managed to get up every hill, but some made me puff hard and I had to stand on the pedals. I was a bit fitter then, but not like a proper cyclist..

 

[Elecman]

Knowing myself I would be disappointed if after a few months I regretted choosing the kit for not having enough power, and having no money to upgrade it to what I knew I wanted in the first place. I would rather spend a little more and get what I want.
Thats said, I'm 90kg, but I'm a reasonable cyclist, so from what you say a 25 amp controller would be OK.
Looking at the easy site I can't really find any details about the exact specs of the kit and battery.
Maybe I would be better going for one of the xipi kits - but then Im getting into £1200 territory for the kit alone, and maybe overkill on the power.
Are there alternatives other than making up my own kit from China ?
Ideally £800/£900 is the max I would like to fork out on a kit really, otherwise I am back to my other plan of buying a whole bike.

 

[Elecman]

Sorry, should have said - Can't see what details of the Ezee kit are...

 

[Elecman]

Scratch that, I've found the details (I was looking at the price sheet !)

V2 eZee 250 watts BLDC motor with planetary reduction gear
Available in 200, 250, 300, and 350 rpm windings
Controller Rating 20 amps max
37v 14Ah Samsung 18650 cells ( 5C ) = 518 Wh Weight 3.8 Kg

Looks a good kit.

What speed could I get out of this kit offroad (22-25 would be great ?)
and what rpm would be best.
I'm presuming this would be a cassette hub with disc compatibility.

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi both options look great, although I'm guessing the kit from china has a bit more oomf, which would be great.

Not really

 

[trex]

Scratch that, I've found the details (I was looking at the price sheet !)

V2 eZee 250 watts BLDC motor with planetary reduction gear
Available in 200, 250, 300, and 350 rpm windings
Controller Rating 20 amps max
37v 14Ah Samsung 18650 cells ( 5C ) = 518 Wh Weight 3.8 Kg

Looks a good kit.

What speed could I get out of this kit offroad (22-25 would be great ?)
and what rpm would be best.
I'm presuming this would be a cassette hub with disc compatibility.

You could consider the $90 350W MXUS XF08C as a possible candidate.
It's the cheapest option (8-Fun CST, Ezee, Xofo XFVK)
270RPM for 700C wheel and 300RPM for 26" wheel for 22-23mph.
Any kit is limited overall by the lowest common denominator: motor RPM, battery continous output and controller continuous output.

 

[Elecman]

Any of these options are good for what I need I would imagine.
It's just availability and price.
I must admit the 'Ezee' option is looking attractive because it's exactly that.
It also means I can get support to help me as its a self install if anything doesn't go to plan or if I want to adapt things slightly.