Help! Looking for advice please, for 1000 watt motor for Pawtrekker Dog Scooter 20 inch wheel conversion

Trevor George

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Jun 23, 2014
31
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Hotwells, Bristol, (UK)
Hi folks . . . back in 2016 I converted a - Pawtrekker Dog Scooter - with 20 inch wheels to electric-assist with a 250 watt- Cyclotricity kit - before those type of Scooters became very popular, as shown - HERE - in this video I made -> www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOqJX5685oY&t=3s
I've just bought another Pawtrekker Dog Scooter off eBay and want to put in a 1,000 watt motor (for use on Private Land) and install it into the rear swing-arm in which the dropouts are 100mm apart, as I wouldn't want to put 1,000 watts between those front forks.
I looked thoroughly on eBay and ordered a "Front Wheel Motor" as it's designed for a 100mm dropout width, but the eBay seller told me it wouldn't work in the rear, and suggested that I buy the "rear" version which is much wider (which won't fit) and so refunded me my money without even explaining why it wouldn't work.
If anyone can help I would be very grateful, as I'm thinking of re-ordering it, as I'm pretty sure it will work
Thank you

pawtrekker_side.jpgpawtrekker_side.jpg
 
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vfr400

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A front motor would be fine in the rear of that scooter. That guy probably didn't understand what it was. Maybe he thought you needed the threaded boss for a sprocket.
 
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Trevor George

Pedelecer
Jun 23, 2014
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Hotwells, Bristol, (UK)
A front motor would be fine in the rear of that scooter. That guy probably didn't understand what it was. Maybe he thought you needed the threaded boss for a sprocket.
Thank you for your reply VFR400 (I guess that's the Honda )
I thought the same, but I did explain several times, that it was a Scooter with 100mm wide rear dropouts. Maybe it was lost in the translation.
However I've just had another message this morning from another Chinese eBike kit seller who says the Front Wheel will work as long as my rear dropouts are only 100mm wide, and they are a significant number of pounds cheaper, so I will probably go with that one, after doing one more check about their batteries
 

vfr400

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Make sure that your new motor has the correct speed for a 20" wheel. 400 rpm will get you to 23 mph. Also, don't forget about the tyre. You'll need a fairly wide one with plenty of grip becaause a 1000w motor will make aa lot of torque in a 20" wheel.
 

Trevor George

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Jun 23, 2014
31
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Hotwells, Bristol, (UK)
Make sure that your new motor has the correct speed for a 20" wheel. as 400 rpm will get you to 23 mph.
Thanks again VFR400 . . . it's coming as a kit, so I'm gonna be stuck with what they supply, as it's a Direct Drive motor (not geared) in a 20 inch wheel, and I'm pretty sure the existing tyres will be ok, as they are a semi off-road type, and the same as in my previous conversion shown - HERE - www.busker.me.uk/bike/scoot.htm
 

Spitz

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Jan 23, 2020
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Thanks again VFR400 . . . it's coming as a kit, so I'm gonna be stuck with what they supply, as it's a Direct Drive motor (not geared) in a 20 inch wheel, and I'm pretty sure the existing tyres will be ok, as they are a semi off-road type, and the same as in my previous conversion shown - HERE - www.busker.me.uk/bike/scoot.htm
Hi Trevor, I have just visited your website and was impressed with your scooter conversion. I also note you mention converting a GT mtb with a kit from cyclotricity and was curious which kit you used and whether or not you ran into any issues?

I have a GT Avalanche Expert mtb which I would like to convert and your experience would be invaluable.

Many thanks (and apologies for hijacking your thread).

Mark
 

Trevor George

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Jun 23, 2014
31
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Hotwells, Bristol, (UK)
Hi Trevor, I have just visited your website and was impressed with your scooter conversion. I also note you mention converting a GT MTB with a kit from Cyclotricity
Hi Mark . . . I used the 250 watt front-wheel kit from Cyclotricity in its simplest form - (1) Front wheel with Motor - (2) Rack Battery - (3) Thumb throttle only (no display) - as HERE - www.cyclotricity.com/uk/custom.html
They didn't have a decent sized frame-downtube battery at the time I bought it, but that's what I would buy now, if I was doing it again.
I didn't bother with a pedal-assist sensor, as I just use the thumb-throttle whenever I want a boost into headwinds, getting away at the lights, or uphill, as I like to pedal unassisted quite a bit.
I moved the thumb-throttle to the left side of the handlebars, so I could still use it when giving a right arm signal in busy traffic.
The first one I converted took me a couple of hours, as I spent time reading every single word of the instructions.
Just to add finally . . . I would definitely have bought from Cyclotricity again, but they don't offer a 1,000 watt motor in a 20 inch wheel, so I couldn't even buy one of theirs for my project, even if I re-spoked one of their bigger motors into a 20 inch wheel, they would still be too wide to fit in the narrow 100mm rear dropout on the Pawtrekker.
 
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Spitz

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Hi Mark . . . I used the 250 watt front-wheel kit from Cyclotricity in its simplest form - (1) Front wheel with Motor - (2) Rack Battery - (3) Thumb throttle only (no display) - as HERE - www.cyclotricity.com/uk/custom.html
They didn't have a decent sized frame-downtube battery at the time I bought it, but that's what I would buy now, if I was doing it again.
I didn't bother with a pedal-assist sensor, as I just use the thumb-throttle whenever I want a boost into headwinds, getting away at the lights, or uphill, as I like to pedal unassisted quite a bit.
I moved the thumb-throttle to the left side of the handlebars, so I could still use it when giving a right arm signal in busy traffic.
The first one I converted took me a couple of hours, as I spent time reading every single word of the instructions.
Just to add finally . . . I would definitely have bought from Cyclotricity again, but they don't offer a 1,000 watt motor in a 20 inch wheel, so I couldn't even buy one of theirs for my project, even if I re-spoked one of their bigger motors into a 20 inch wheel, they would still be too wide to fit in the narrow 100mm rear dropout on the Pawtrekker.
Brilliant, thank you. It was the front wheel kit I had in mind as I have just finished rebuilding the bike with a new truvative splined bb and don’t fancy having to change it the square type. Plus the kind of assistance you describe is exactly what I am looking for.
 
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vfr400

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Brilliant, thank you. It was the front wheel kit I had in mind as I have just finished rebuilding the bike with a new truvative splined bb and don’t fancy having to change it the square type. Plus the kind of assistance you describe is exactly what I am looking for.
Always fit a rear motor if you can. It's safer, gives better handling, better traction and quieter.

I don't understand your problem with the BB. It has no relevance to the type of motor. Can you explain?
 

Trevor George

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Jun 23, 2014
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Hotwells, Bristol, (UK)
Always fit a rear motor if you can. It's safer, gives better handling, better traction and quieter.
Hi VFR again . . I have to disagree with you on that, except for better traction on slippery up-slopes . . . It's not safer, as if you use power when your handlebars are round a a good angle it can kick, whereas the front wheel pulls in the direction you wish to go. Our family much prefer front-wheel motors for the handling, and any noise is minimal anyway :)
 
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Spitz

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Jan 23, 2020
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Always fit a rear motor if you can. It's safer, gives better handling, better traction and quieter.

I don't understand your problem with the BB. It has no relevance to the type of motor. Can you explain?
Sorry, yes, agreed, as long as you don’t opt for the PAS facility rather relying solely on a throttle.
 
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vfr400

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Hi VFR again . . I have to disagree with you on that, except for better traction on slippery up-slopes . . . It's not safer, as if you use power when your handlebars are round a a good angle it can kick, whereas the front wheel pulls in the direction you wish to go. Our family much prefer front-wheel motors for the handling, and any noise is minimal anyway :)
I have to call ball cox on that! I've been building, riding and fixing electric bikes for more than 10 years. I've never heard of a bike "kicking" apart from my 5.5kw one with thin tyres. A 250w Cyclotricity kit hasn't got the power to kick itself, let alone a bike.
 

vfr400

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Sorry, yes, agreed, as long as you don’t opt for the PAS facility rather relying solely on a throttle.
You didn't explain what your problem is with the PAS. You can fit one to any bike. What's the problem? Whether you it PAS and/or throttle, it makes no difference to the location of the motor. Rear is always best.
 

Spitz

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Jan 23, 2020
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You didn't explain what your problem is with the PAS. You can fit one to any bike. What's the problem? Whether you it PAS and/or throttle, it makes no difference to the location of the motor. Rear is always best.
Hmmm, I had no intention of getting into a discussion about which configuration is best, they all have pros and cons IMO.

Similarly I have no issue with fitting/using a PAS, I was just looking at a simple conversion for my MTB.
 

vfr400

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Hmmm, I had no intention of getting into a discussion about which configuration is best, they all have pros and cons IMO.

Similarly I have no issue with fitting/using a PAS, I was just looking at a simple conversion for my MTB.
When converting a bike, you'd expect to years of happy and convenient cycling from it. It doesn't make sense to compromise all that by trying to save 10 minutes on installation, nor by fitting sub-optimal parts.
 

PC2017

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My kind of folks
years of happy and convenient cycling from it
2 years on my current front hub (48v 14a max) a few issues with road side gravel but if you are aware of this then you lower the PAS and set off slow.
 
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Trevor George

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Jun 23, 2014
31
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Hotwells, Bristol, (UK)
I've never heard of a bike "kicking" apart from my 5.5kw one with thin tyres.
If you are making a really tight turn, close to a wall or fence, the front motor takes you correctly in the direction your bars are turning, whereas a rear drive motor will try to kick you forward into that fence or wall. That was what I was trying to convey.
 

vfr400

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If you are making a really tight turn, close to a wall or fence, the front motor takes you correctly in the direction your bars are turning, whereas a rear drive motor will try to kick you forward into that fence or wall. That was what I was trying to convey.
I thought Cyclotricity used KT controllers. Have you got your set to speed control instead of current control?
 

Trevor George

Pedelecer
Jun 23, 2014
31
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Hotwells, Bristol, (UK)
It doesn't make sense to compromise all that by trying to save 10 minutes on installation, nor by fitting sub-optimal parts.
Hi VFR . . . what 10 minutes saved on installation of what?
What do you refer to as sub-optimal parts?
I currently ride a 750 watt rear hub-drive eBike which came with PAS :(
It was so irritating kicking in when I was trying to ride slowly, that I have disconnected it, and just use the thumb throttle for that extra help when needed, such as pulling away from traffic-lights, up hills, into headwinds etc.
Here's my current eBike - HERE - https://youtu.be/y56rDEgO79s
 

vfr400

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Hi VFR . . . what 10 minutes saved on installation of what?
What do you refer to as sub-optimal parts?
I currently ride a 750 watt rear hub-drive eBike which came with PAS :(
It was so irritating kicking in when I was trying to ride slowly, that I have disconnected it, and just use the thumb throttle for that extra help when needed, such as pulling away from traffic-lights, up hills, into headwinds etc.
Here's my current eBike - HERE - https://youtu.be/y56rDEgO79s
My reply was to Spitz, not you. I can see your problem: High power in a small back wheel with a speed control controller. Spitz wouldn't get that with a 250w Cyclotricity kit.
 
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