Looking to buy first electric bike - have identified two

Woosh · Jan 15, 2020

hub gear is great for low maintenance but the Scott is better value for money.

Woosh · Jan 15, 2020

The Machina has hubgearwhich is the main feature.
The Scott has better motor, suspension fork against rigid fork, wider range of gearing compared to the P5, a very useful frame lock and rack.
The rest is about same, hydraulic brakes, mudguards, lights, pedals, kickstand.

RobF · Jan 16, 2020

The KTM has the Wingee combined mudguard and light duty pannier rack.

Very neat - if you are prepared to only use pannier bags and don't need to carry bags of cement.

The fork on the Scott, as with most in this price bracket, adds weight but little else.

The single Headshok on the KTM is the better solution.

Not many gears on the KTM which you might find limiting, and the range of gears won't be large.

Could suit if you are not in a very hilly area,

sjpt · Jan 16, 2020

from: https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/city---trekking-e-bike-e6100-series/SG-C7000-5D.html
The Shimano has Gear ratio_Total 263%
Gear ratio_1 1
Gear ratio_2 1.277
Gear ratio_3 1.622
Gear ratio_4 2.07
Gear ratio_5 2.63

The actual top and bottom will depend on the number of teeth in the crank and wheel cogs.

The Nexus 8 has range 305%: ratios 0.53, 0.64, 0.75, 0.85, 1, 1.22, 1.42 and 1.62

A 15 speed Derailleur varies a lot depending on the front cogs and cassette: it might have a range of 400% or sometimes quite a bit less. You can get single 11 speeds cassettes with a range from 11 to 50, 454%.

SteveB1262 · Jan 16, 2020

Cowimars said:
I am looking to buy my first electric bike. Reason for the purchase is to commute to work and to get some additional exercise at the weekends. Budget around about 2 k ish.
On my search i have stumbled across these two, both of which look to be at a good discount.

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i would be keen to get peoples thoughts on both and any obvious specifications that stand out as either being good or bad. How do they compare ? I like the idea of a hub gear but not sure how only 5 would work on the KTM - would this provide enough of a gearing range.

On your 2k budget you should also consider Raleigh Motus with Bosch crank motor. I've had mine 16 months now and it has proved to be superb to ride and utterly reliable. Because I use the motor just when I get into physical distress (heart failure and spinal injuries) I can get over 100 miles on a charge out of the 300w basic battery during the Summer. During the colder weather and adverse wind conditions there is a marked reduction in that and 50+ miles is more realistic. There is very little drag when the motor is off and there seems to be none at all once up to speed. In all honesty you can barely tell when the motor actually disconnects which mine tends to do at at 19/20mph (bonus) now it has been run in. I find it hard to fault the build or performance and the one accident I have been involved in resulted in only very minor superficial damage, restricted to one pedal and one brake lever cover which considering the damage that occured to me is phenomenal. I highly recommend you consider it as one of your options.

sjpt · Jan 16, 2020

We've been pretty happy with our older Motus (step through and 7 speed hub), but unless you can find some good sale bargains it would be difficult to compete with the two the OP mentioned.

I think the range and drag details will be similar on all of them; much more dependant on how you use it than which one you choose.

Woosh · Jan 16, 2020

the Scott is not only a competent bike, it costs a stonking £400 less!

Andy McNish · Jan 17, 2020

See if you can get any Winter deals on a Cube Touring Bike.

A quick Google turned up this at £1279 for example:
Cube Touring 400

Even at £1600 it would be a steal.

I've done 3000km trouble free on mine in the past year (marginally higher specs but still the same basic bike). Silent, zero resist, battery concealed and out of the elements, stable, built like a tank. Only downside its weight (about 23.5kg I think).

Swap out stock tyres for Marathon Pluses (zero punctures) - it will take up to 47cm ones if you want - and you're golden...

SteveB1262 · Jan 17, 2020

sjpt said:
We've been pretty happy with our older Motus (step through and 7 speed hub), but unless you can find some good sale bargains it would be difficult to compete with the two the OP mentioned.

I think the range and drag details will be similar on all of them; much more dependant on how you use it than which one you choose.

The step through, I understand, has now been discontinued, in favour of a revised model crossbar in which the crossbar is slightly lower than the original. I believe this in reaction to comments about frame flex though I'm not 100% certain about that. Even so the price of the new model is still within the OP's original stated budget of around 2k. The base model uses a 7 speed derailleur gear set up which, quite honestly is about all the average user will need. You can reach 22mph without, 'windmilling' and the lowest gear has fine even for off road use. I are say the 8 speed version of the version up is slightly better it I wouldn't consider the extra gear a good reason to paying the increased price. The fact that you get lights and slightly better spec battery is a plus especially if you need a little more range. I don't know about the other bikes but I do know the built quality of the Motus combined with the Bosch crank drive motor makes for a very reliable combustion. It's all going to boil down to the OP's personal taste and what bargains present themselves when it boils down to it.

sjpt · Jan 17, 2020

Similar to the Cube touring Andy mentioned above is a step-through hub gear version at the same price if that is appropriate. https://www.leisurewheels.co.uk/m12b123s185p20658/CUBE-Town-Hybrid-One-400-2019
(I'd go for it if I needed another bike)

It has the same Magura hydraulic rim brakes as our Motus. I must admit I'm not a fan of those, they are a complete pain to adjust.

And lots more of varying specs at good savings around that price.

Jonah · Jan 19, 2020

Looks like a bargain to me. I’m sure you’ll enjoy it.

Michael Price · Jan 19, 2020

SteveB1262 said:
On your 2k budget you should also consider Raleigh Motus with Bosch crank motor. I've had mine 16 months now and it has proved to be superb to ride and utterly reliable. Because I use the motor just when I get into physical distress (heart failure and spinal injuries) I can get over 100 miles on a charge out of the 300w basic battery during the Summer. During the colder weather and adverse wind conditions there is a marked reduction in that and 50+ miles is more realistic. There is very little drag when the motor is off and there seems to be none at all once up to speed. In all honesty you can barely tell when the motor actually disconnects which mine tends to do at at 19/20mph (bonus) now it has been run in. I find it hard to fault the build or performance and the one accident I have been involved in resulted in only very minor superficial damage, restricted to one pedal and one brake lever cover which considering the damage that occured to me is phenomenal. I highly recommend you consider it as one of your options.

Another mention for the Raleigh Motus - this is my 4th ebike (if you include one that I returned and my wife's folder that I ride occasionally) and the Motus is far and above the best. 2019 version has Bosch crank drive motor, central battery , rear rack
Overall everything is just class.
I don;t know if it is the tyre of something else - but the thing just flies - I often look at the speedo and find I am doing 18-20 mph - which is not bad for an overweight unfit asthmatic bloke of nearly 60
Last time I looked there were several great offers on the 2019 versions - companies trying to get rid of old models as the 2020 version came out just before Christmas - you could get one for about £1300 and spend the rest on slime tyres and panniers - then celebrate with a bottle of wine and still have loads left.
or get a better model of Motus - although personally I like the basic Purion display on the base version - but I would like the auto lights!

Saudidave · Jan 20, 2020

Michael Price said:
Another mention for the Raleigh Motus - this is my 4th ebike (if you include one that I returned and my wife's folder that I ride occasionally) and the Motus is far and above the best. 2019 version has Bosch crank drive motor, central battery , rear rack
Overall everything is just class.
I don;t know if it is the tyre of something else - but the thing just flies - I often look at the speedo and find I am doing 18-20 mph - which is not bad for an overweight unfit asthmatic bloke of nearly 60
Last time I looked there were several great offers on the 2019 versions - companies trying to get rid of old models as the 2020 version came out just before Christmas - you could get one for about £1300 and spend the rest on slime tyres and panniers - then celebrate with a bottle of wine and still have loads left.
or get a better model of Motus - although personally I like the basic Purion display on the base version - but I would like the auto lights!

A bit of a negative regarding the Raleigh Motus Grand Tour:

I bought mine new in November 2018.

The gear cable retention clip (8 speed nexus hub) fell off after the 5th outing (120mile point I think it was ) and I lost all gears

The assembly standard was atrocious. The mudguards rattled and the handlebar stem was loose at a couple of hundred miles. I had to fit rubber anti vibration pads to the mudguard stays to cure the rattle.

The mudguard support fixed to the rear rack broke lose at at 1000 miles leaving the bike unable to be ridden. I had to tie it the mudguard bracket up with string to get home. Raleigh redesigned the bracket on the 2020 model. I have now secured the mudguard bracket with two nylon zip ties and it is nice and stable!

The chainguard kept falling off and I had to replace it with a new one @500 miles

The rear dropouts don't have enough movement room to adjust the wheel and since ebikes stretch chains at an alarming rate the bike needs a Chain Tensioner to avoid a sloppy and clattering chain. Shimano's website clearly stated that horizontal dropouts are not compatible with the Nexus 8 disc brake version by the way. I approached Raleigh about this but their customer services were best described as unhelpful and downright obstructive. They actually changed the drop out type and fitted a chain tensioner to the 2020 model but refused to admit that the 2019 model had a design fault. I fitted a tensioner myself in the end as it was easier and quicker than arguing with them.

I've now fixed and modified the bike and I love it, but if I hadn't been tech savvy and able to service bikes myself it would have been a £2,000.00 disaster. It was a badly specified bike with quality components but poorly assembled

Caveat Emptor!

Michael Price · Jan 20, 2020

Saudidave said:
A bit of a negative regarding the Raleigh Motus Grand Tour:

I bought mine new in November 2018.
The gear cable retention clip (8 speed nexus hub) fell off after the 5th outing (120mile point I think it was ) and I lost all gears

The assembly standard was atrocious. The mudguards rattled and the handlebar stem was loose at a couple of hundred miles. I had to fit rubber anti vibration pads to the mudguard stays to cure the rattle.

The mudguard support fixed to the rear rack fell off at 1000 miles leaving the bike unable to be ridden. I had to tie it the mudguard bracket up with string to get home. Raleigh redesigned the bracket on the 2020 model.

The chainguard kept falling off and I had to replace it with a new one @500 miles

The rear dropouts don't have enough movement room to adjust the wheel and since ebikes stretch chains at an alarming rate the bike needs a Chain Tensioner to avoid a sloppy and clattering chain. Shimano's website clearly stated that horizontal dropouts are not compatible with the Nexus 8 disc brake version by the way. I approached Raleigh about this but their customer services were best described as unhelpful and downright obstructive. They actually changed the drop out type and fitted a chain tensioner to the 2020 model but refused to admit that the 2019 model had a design fault. I fitted a tensioner myself in the end as it was easier and quicker than arguing with them.

I've now fixed and modified the bike and I love it, but if I hadn't been tech savvy and able to service bikes myself it would have been a £2,000.00 disaster. It was a badly specified bike with quality components but poorly assembled

Caveat Emptor!

Thanks for the info - I will keep an eye on those things - I only got th ebike in November so I'm not up to 500 miles a yet - but it will get pushed a lot more when the weather warms up!
I did have a problem with a Raleigh Array that I used to have, and Raleigh - via the local bike shop who have been brilliant - ended up swapping the Array for a Motus to stop me asking for my money back.
I think this is probably mostly down to the bike shop who refused to let the problem drop and kept the pressure on Raleigh
OK - it was a 2019 Motus and the 2020 had just been released - but still a great way to keep customers happy

Saudidave · Jan 20, 2020

Michael Price said:
Thanks for the info - I will keep an eye on those things - I only got th ebike in November so I'm not up to 500 miles a yet - but it will get pushed a lot more when the weather warms up!
I did have a problem with a Raleigh Array that I used to have, and Raleigh - via the local bike shop who have been brilliant - ended up swapping the Array for a Motus to stop me asking for my money back.
I think this is probably mostly down to the bike shop who refused to let the problem drop and kept the pressure on Raleigh
OK - it was a 2019 Motus and the 2020 had just been released - but still a great way to keep customers happy

I was was unlucky I think to have such a badly assembled bike from the off, however I do believe the 2019 motus was badly designed in respect of components. In retrospect a derailleur version would have been a lot less trouble for me. If anyone has the hub gear version and wants to fit a chain tensioner I’d be happy to share my experiences. Fitting one requires only a little engineering skill and costs about £20.00 for the parts.

Michael Price · Jan 21, 2020

Saudidave said:
I was was unlucky I think to have such a badly assembled bike from the off, however I do believe the 2019 motus was badly designed in respect of components. In retrospect a derailleur version would have been a lot less trouble for me. If anyone has the hub gear version and wants to fit a chain tensioner I’d be happy to share my experiences. Fitting one requires only a little engineering skill and costs about £20.00 for the parts.

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