Nano Brompton - first experiences

[Manchego]

In view of the Torq's (hopefully temporary) return to Loughborough last week, I was delighted to get the call from Tony Castles to say that my nano kit was ready for collection. I picked it up from Tony and Simon Mills (both delightfully enthusiastic and helpful) at the beginning of the week and immediately set about the donor Brompton (silver 3L).

Installation is reasonably straightforward (needs to be for me) and much as described in the atob article. A few trips to the computer to look at the pdf and a brief panic when I reversed the polarity on the battery-motor connection. Then a quick trip to the local bike shop to tighten up the steering and I was away. The bike works in ebike mode, so with a twist of the throttle, you're away even without pedalling. The kit is nicely put together although there are obviously a few bits that will be a bit vulnerable when folding and I'll need to watch.

So far, I've only been a few miles. Performance is, frankly, pretty amazing. The heavier front wheel is barely noticeable and the bike retains the handling characteristics of the Brompton. It accelerates quickly and zips up hills (say, 1 in 8) without pedalling. As expected, its far better in this regard than the Torq, although it obviously doesn't have the out and out speed of the Torq in derestricted mode (not sure I'd want that speed on a Brompton). The motor seems to be completely silent most of the time. One of the really nice things is having the underlying familiarity of the Brompton. It folds well - its a bit wider due to the widened forks/motor. Folded, the handlebars have a bit more of the tendency to swing out - so I add a small elastic restraint.

I'll put in a few more miles and report back. But, so far, excellent

Manchego

 

[pgbw]

About the extra width when folded - Would it still fit in a Brompton bag?

You may not have the heavy duty transport bag, but I find my machine is a tight squeeze in it (though not necessarily for the width of the front forks) - I have a long seat post.

 

[Jimblob]

Hopefully the Nano kit will prove a bit more reliable than the Ezee Torq!

I'll be interested to know how you get on; we are offering a conversion service for the kit and the whole Nano package. . i.e. send us your Brompton, we'll electrify it and send it back to you.

Only thing is the wait - October is the earliest we can do them.

Jamie
www.TETS.biz

 

[rooel]

Your link is not working.

 

[Manchego]

About the extra width when folded - Would it still fit in a Brompton bag?

You may not have the heavy duty transport bag, but I find my machine is a tight squeeze in it (though not necessarily for the width of the front forks) - I have a long seat post.

Ok - tried it out. I too have the long post. It would fit without the long seat post - the extra width means that there isn't enough spare to get over the saddle. The solution would be the telescopic post which allows the saddle to go all the way down.

 

[pgbw]

Thank you for trying that - very useful to know.

I will probably not go for the conversion for the moment because of personal reasons, but I'd certainly need to be able to get it into the bag, if I do.

 

[Jimblob]

Your link is not working.

Thanks for the info - yes one of our servers was down but is back up now! You can see the main site (which always works as far as I know) Electric Bike Sales - Home

 

[Manchego]

One month on..

Nano Brompton still going well - now done 200 miles or so. Mainly 3-4 mile trips, with the occasional longer 13 mile commute. I've tidied up the cables that I managed to get on the wrong side when I was fitting the new forks. Everything now folds neatly away and I'm less concerned about the wiring being vulnerable.

Its a very neat package and about as manageable as a standard Brompton. I'm still without the Torq and have mainly done split car/bike commutes. The Torq does the 13 miles in about 40 minutes and the Nano in about 60 minutes which is a bit too long for regular use. Nonetheless, the Nano is highly complementary to the Torq and makes trips down (and back up!) the hill into Oxford a breeze. The absence of any kind of battery plus the tiny front wheel motor and total silence means that the bike gets a lot of bemused looks as it seems to glide magically along.

Great bike so far - will report on reliability etc in another 200 or so miles

 

[flecc]

Thanks for the update Manchego, good that things are going well and doing the job for you. That 60 minutes is good for a 16" wheel folder up against a fast 700c wheel bike like the Torq, though I can see it could be a bit tiring.

Look forward to your future reports, as I'm very interested in the long term reliability which I'm hopeful will be good. It will make a change to have a really quiet kit motor available in future.
.

 

[Leonardo]

I’m very interested in your report Manchego, thank you for updating it. May I ask if you are completely satisfied with the three speeds? I’m thinking about a Brompton Nano and I’m interested in uphill capability rather than in speed: on the basis of your experience do you see any reason to buy a six speeds as a donor?

 

[Manchego]

I’m very interested in your report Manchego, thank you for updating it. May I ask if you are completely satisfied with the three speeds? I’m thinking about a Brompton Nano and I’m interested in uphill capability rather than in speed: on the basis of your experience do you see any reason to buy a six speeds as a donor?

Hi Leonardo,
I think three speeds is fine. The throttle is on the right and so that hand is kep busy without too much gear change. I think that A to B fitted the throttle on the left which is perhaps a good option because it would leave the right hand free for gear change.

Lower gears for hills isnt really an issue - you only need to change right down on the steepest hill and even then the motor would prob do it unassisted. Very occasionally, I miss a higher gear when cruising >22mph downhill, but again, not sure I'd want to go much faster on a Brompton.

6 gears would, I think, be too many. For a lighter package, converting the 2 gear titanium might be a great solution

cheers

 

[Leonardo]

Hi Manchego,
Thank you very much for your answer. I’d like to go on with the questions… Hope not to annoy you.
Do you feel any drag when riding with the motor disengaged?
Which kind of problems do you think to be involved by the removing of the front wheel for puncture repairing?
Does the weight of motor&battery bother you when driving?
Does the controller integrate a front light?
The electrified luggage block means that both the front clip and the carrier frame are provided with the kit (i.e. one needs only the bare front bag to store the battery)?
Many thanks Manchego!

 

[Manchego]

Hi Manchego,
Thank you very much for your answer. I’d like to go on with the questions… Hope not to annoy you.
Do you feel any drag when riding with the motor disengaged?
Which kind of problems do you think to be involved by the removing of the front wheel for puncture repairing?
Does the weight of motor&battery bother you when driving?
Does the controller integrate a front light?
The electrified luggage block means that both the front clip and the carrier frame are provided with the kit (i.e. one needs only the bare front bag to store the battery)?
Many thanks Manchego!

No problem Leonardo,

1. Drag - not really, seems to be less than with the Torq. My perception, if this is possible, is that there is a little bit of drag at first, but this wears off vey quickly. Essentially, however, I'd have no reservation about riding without the battery in standard Brompton mode.

2. I haven't had to to do this yet, but I dont think it would be a problem. The cable has a joining socket and so the wheel and motor can be completely detached - again unlike the Torq (even though that was easy enough when I changed over to marathon plus tyres by freeing the cable a little)

3. Weight of front wheel etc - not at all, oddly doesnt really change the handling over a basic brompton.

4. Controller/light. For some reason Tony has put a row of very bright LEDs on the back of the controller - these light the rider up at night and certainly increase visibility. I dont think they accurately reflect battery charge (but not sure). The cable includes a spare set of wires for a light - or a computer - , but at present there is no integrated front light - I keep a Lupine halogen in the bag if i might encounter dodgy light (leaving nothing to chance!). My understanding is that Tony and Simon are always considering potential improvements to the controller and so an integrated light might be one of these. Certainly, there seems to be battery capacity to spare - I dont seem to have got anywhere near using a full charge (but I've never ridden more that 13 miles at a time and always top up because the charger is so light)

5. Electrified luggage block. A neat solution. I was concerned that it was a bit Heath Robinson when I first saw it but it actually works very well. You get the block and I also paid for the basic bag which includes the modified frame. I actually swapped the frame into the larger touring pannier which is big enough to swallow the battery plus my work documents plus essential tools/clothes etc. Tony showed me the small tool battery that he's been trialing - I think he gets 5-10 miles out of it obviously its a lot lighter. Not available yet, I believe. Actually though, splitting the weight between bag and bike works very well and I can easily lug the kit around and up the stairs in the department.

Feel free to come back with any further questions, its easier to focus on answers that to try to work out what might be useful information for others considering this kit. I may appear to prefer it to the Torq - and I suppose I do because 1. I have always appreciated the potential of the Brompton for mixed mode travel and the Nano Brompton kit seems to extend this further and 2. its nice to ride something that you have at least partly built yourself, is endearingly still in development and although slightly (but only slightly) rough round the edges seems to be made from top quality components. Its horses for courses really and the Torq is a big fast bike that eats the flat miles - but its not very easy to chuck it in - or on - the car.

cheers

M

 

[Leonardo]

Thank you very much Manchego. You are very kind.
I'll come back with some questions later.

 

[faphillips]

Brompton Nano

Manchego

Excellent report on the Brompton Nano and answers some of the questions I had.

You say that the kit is (slightly) "rough round the edges". Could you elaborate?

Do I presume that the controller with your kit is housed in a metal enclosure on the handlebars? The latest version now places the controller and all the wires in a small soft bag which is attached to the handlebars by cable ties and is obviously a much cheaper solution and I expect makes the folded bike some 2.5" (or thereabouts) wider.

3 further questions:

Were the luggage block and the luggage frame fitted with the battery connection terminals or did you have to fit them yourself? The instructions I have recived skimp in this area.

Is the wire to the battery (in the bag) sealed through the wall of the pannier/bag and if so is this done well?

Does your bike have a brake operated power switch that disconnects power as soon as you operate the front brake? The picture of the kit shows this whereas I dont think the Nanos I have seen thu sfar have had this.

Be very grateful if you could answer these questions for me.

faphilips

 

[Manchego]

more questions

Hi FA

Excellent report on the Brompton Nano and answers some of the questions I had.

You say that the kit is (slightly) "rough round the edges". Could you elaborate?

This may not have been the best way of putting it - and may apply more to my implementation! All the components seem very high quality and the kit works extremely well - but they aren't quite as slick as you would expect of a product coming out of a full tooled-up factory. And of course, thats because a lot of it is improvised in Tony's garage. But is all very well thought out and road tested. Does that give you a better idea?

Do I presume that the controller with your kit is housed in a metal enclosure on the handlebars? The latest version now places the controller and all the wires in a small soft bag which is attached to the handlebars by cable ties and is obviously a much cheaper solution and I expect makes the folded bike some 2.5" (or thereabouts) wider.

Yes - Tony showed me the new bag and I have the metal box. I quite like the metal box - but the bag would certainly tuck things away a bit more.

3 further questions:

Were the luggage block and the luggage frame fitted with the battery connection terminals or did you have to fit them yourself? The instructions I have recived skimp in this area.

The modified luggage block and frame came supplied - I simply replaced the existing block and fitted the frame into a different bag.

Is the wire to the battery (in the bag) sealed through the wall of the pannier/bag and if so is this done well?

the wire comes through a small slit in the back of the bag and comes out in the bit where the frame fits. Neatly done and away from any possible water penetration. I had to make a slightly large slit in the bag that I changed to to get the connecting plug through the fabric.

Does your bike have a brake operated power switch that disconnects power as soon as you operate the front brake? The picture of the kit shows this whereas I dont think the Nanos I have seen thu sfar have had this.

No, I dont have this - sounds a nice touch

cheers


M

 

[faphillips]

Nano Brompton experiences

Manchego

Thanks for the update. Very much appreciated

FAP

 

[Manchego]

Well the Torq is finally back and seems to be working. I've alternated the Nano and Torq on the 12.3 mile each way commute. The most obvious advantage for the Torq is the speed on the flat and the biggest hassle is the poor range (Li-ion) which means that I have to coddle it to keep enough charge to make it up the hills at each end of the trip. I'd forgotten how much fine throttle control is required on the derestricted bike to avoid emptying the battery after 5 miles. There are only about 50 metres difference in elevation between one end of the trip and another (with a few hills in between) but it seems to have a major effect - typically in fine weather the Torq can do the outward trip in 48-53 minutes and the return trip (downhill overall) in 43-45 minutes. Figures for the Nano-Brompton are outward 55-60 and return 50-55. The Torq ride is a much better aerobic workout - the Nano is rather sedate, you feel that you could just whack the throttle up and cruise along all day (at around 12-13.5 mph)!

If I could boost the uphill performance of the Torq - even up the mild gradients of most of the trip - it would have a major effect on the times. Perhaps I should do the Flecc NiMH mod.

 

[flecc]

Do you really mean emptying a fully charged battery in 5 miles Manchego, or is it that it cuts out on hills once you've used that much?

I'm in a constantly hilly area, many of them very steep, but when I flogged the standard Torq at full throttle all the time, I'd still get 15 miles range. The shortest I ever managed by deliberately picking a worst possible route was 12 miles.

I only got one third improvement at best with the upped voltage battery, so if you struggle to better 5 miles, a third extra won't be much help to you.

I'd guessed the Nano Brompton would be a bit slow on motor with that gearing in the 16" wheel, it sounds a bit like the Lafree Twist performance, leisurely!
.

 

[Manchego]

Hi Flecc

Yes - thats more accurate, the battery isnt completely drained. If I flog it straight up the first hill, I'm immediately drawing a lot of juice and it hits red. Thereafter, its not able to make the mild climbs that occur later on (frequent cut outs). It might still show green at rest - but it just can't give enough for the motor to fully assist up these marginal slopes and by the end of the trip its cutting out all the time. On the other hand it can do the whole trip reasonably well if I hold back and try to keep it in the yellow from the beginning.

So, on a well-known route, its possible to work out the most efficient throttle settings for each stage. On a new or unfamiliar route, it would probably be worth putting back the restriction which would give more range. Or keep a spare, I suppose!