New Halfords Carrera Vengence E Bike £800

[egroover]

Hi all

Just noticed this on the Halfords site. Bafung rear hub motor and what apperas to be the same battery as the crosffire-e/Vulcan (11.6ah)
Not LCD display and cheaper spec (mechanical discs) than the Vulcan, but £200 quid cheaper.
Add some discounts (BC 10%, Quidco etc) should see it sub £700. Cycle2work scheme on this should see it come in at about £560
Hopefully different motor/electronics might see the end of the (in)famous crossfire/vulcan cutouts

http://www.halfords.com/cycling/bikes/electric-bikes/carrera-vengeance-e-mens-electric-mountain-bike

 

[cyclebuddy]

Hopefully different motor/electronics might see the end of the (in)famous crossfire/vulcan cutouts

This Vengence Halfords bike uses the same Phylion SF-06/s battery pack as their Carrera Vulcan/Crossfire, all-be-it not the Suntour specific system.

It's also the same Phylion SF-06 battery pack that the Greenway Cross-City bike uses, and of the many owners/riders of that bike on this forum, no one has yet reported a problem with it.

The "cut-out" issue reported with the Vulcan/Crossfire logically has to be related to the Suntour implementation rather than the Phylion battery itself - despite the common cause of that cut-out issue seemingly being a loose battery?

 

[John_S]

Seems an alright bike with a nice appearance, although at a similar price range you could buy a bike with a significantly bigger battery than this and with a much more powerful and torquey motor/controller like several of the Woosh models.

 

[egroover]

This Vengence Halfords bike uses the same Phylion SF-06/s battery pack as their Carrera Vulcan/Crossfire, all-be-it not the Suntour specific system.

It's also the same Phylion SF-06 battery pack that the Greenway Cross-City bike uses, and of the many owners/riders of that bike on this forum, no one has yet reported a problem with it.

The "cut-out" issue reported with the Vulcan/Crossfire logically has to be related to the Suntour implementation rather than the Phylion battery itself - despite the common cause of that cut-out issue seemingly being a loose battery?

I think the Greenway version of the same battery pack is a bit less capacity, I understand that this one is the same as the Vulcan at 11.6ah (presumably there type or number of cells is different inside)
As you rightly pointed out, same battery case, but I'm not convinced the cutout is always vibration related, I've had it cut out sat stationary at the lights, but others have seen after going over bumps etc.
Hopefully this implementation using standard kit will prove to be more reliable

 

[egroover]

Seems an alright bike with a nice appearance, although at a similar price range you could buy a bike with a significantly bigger battery than this and with a much more powerful and torquey motor/controller like several of the Woosh models.

I think the equivalent Woosh model (Rio) are £200-300 more, but you do get a better spec

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Just because the battery case looks the same, it doesn't mean that the battery is the same. What's inside it can be completely different and made by a completely different manufacturer.

 

[cyclebuddy]

Just because the battery case looks the same, it doesn't mean that the battery is the same. What's inside it can be completely different and made by a completely different manufacturer.

Yes... except that the Greenway battery has Joycube (a Phylion trademark) stamped all over it, and Halfords openly state their batteries are made by Phylion in their own specs.

The older mid-sized packs used to be 10.4Ah using Samsung pinkies (I've opened one), but the current standard Phylion mid-size pack is 11.6Ah Panasonic cells.

Obviously, Phylion may have tweaked it for Suntour/Halfords as they do offer BMS options.

 

[E-Chris]

Does anyone know where they have hidden the controller I'm assuming inside the battery pack?

 

[cyclebuddy]

Does anyone know where they have hidden the controller I'm assuming inside the battery pack?

I don't know - but I'd guess it's in the moulding that forms the bottom part of the dock, the part where the battery fits into. Phylion make different lengths of bracket and sizes of dock to accommodate different sizes of controllers even though the battery remains the same.

 

[footpump]

from the display it looks like 3 pas assist levels so I assume its speed sensor?
but its 3kg heavier than crossfire/Vulcan
you could swop say front mechanical disk for hydraulic for about £20

 

[redcup1999]

Just because the battery case looks the same, it doesn't mean that the battery is the same. What's inside it can be completely different and made by a completely different manufacturer.

Agreed.

The Crossfire-E and Greenway SF-06 cased batteries are different.
The Greenway battery has has fewer pins connected than the Crossfire.

On the Crossfire, the battery communicates with the controller.
On the Greenway the battery does not communicate with the controller.

The Crossfire battery cuts out.
The Greenway's battery does not.

I will let you draw your own conclusions as to whether the manufacturing tolerences within the SF-06 battery / holder are responsible for the cutouts and therefore whether using Velcro, Rubber bands, Ratchet straps or fairy dust on a Crossfire-E battery will stop cutouts from occurring.

 

[Streethawk]

I'm. Also interested in this as a basic commuter bike. I'll ask my local Halfrauds if they can get one in for me to test. With the BC discount it becomes superb value.

 

[Streethawk]

I think the equivalent Woosh model (Rio) are £200-300 more, but you do get a better spec

But a far worse frame with a silly huge adjustable stem, a single size and a head tube angle from 20 years ago.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

and a head tube angle from 20 years ago.

I thought that was a good thing. We used to love riding no hands, but with this modern geometry, you go into a tank slapper as soon as you let go of the bars.

Mysteriously my Giant gravel bike has that relaxed geometry, which makes it really refreshing to ride.

 

[Streethawk]

I thought that was a good thing. We used to love riding no hands, but with this modern geometry, you go into a tank slapper as soon as you let go of the bars.

Mysteriously my Giant gravel bike has that relaxed geometry, which makes it really refreshing to ride.

Yes riding no handed is more tricky, but the short stem and slack head angle geometry give a much better ride on loose surfaces. I've never understood why the Chinese type frames stick to the old geometry, it's not as if modernising it costs anything extra at the design stage.

I had a ride on the Carrera today, they had an 18" one delivered to the Halfords near my office this morning. That's a size too small for me but otherwise if felt good, torque was good and it was the usual bafang ride. Battery casing felt quite flimsy, but for the price no complaints.

2 warranty on everything means it will make an ideal commuter for me, especially having the Halfords 2 minutes from my office.

Just waiting for a 20" to come in to check the size. I usually ride a 19".

 

[Benjahmin]

I thought that was a good thing. We used to love riding no hands, but with this modern geometry, you go into a tank slapper as soon as you let go of the bars.

Mysteriously my Giant gravel bike has that relaxed geometry, which makes it really refreshing to ride.

So that's why my carrera crossfire is so badly behaved? I thought it was the front hub causing it. The slap is so bad I have to stop to put me wooly hat on.

 

[egroover]

So that's why my carrera crossfire is so badly behaved? I thought it was the front hub causing it. The slap is so bad I have to stop to put me wooly hat on.

Yeah, I had a moment soon after getting my crossfire-e, going downhill at about 25mph, no handed, posing, as you do, massive front end speed wobble, luckily caught it, got it back under control, but definitely skid marks

 

[egroover]

Yes riding no handed is more tricky, but the short stem and slack head angle geometry give a much better ride on loose surfaces. I've never understood why the Chinese type frames stick to the old geometry, it's not as if modernising it costs anything extra at the design stage.

I had a ride on the Carrera today, they had an 18" one delivered to the Halfords near my office this morning. That's a size too small for me but otherwise if felt good, torque was good and it was the usual bafang ride. Battery casing felt quite flimsy, but for the price no complaints.

2 warranty on everything means it will make an ideal commuter for me, especially having the Halfords 2 minutes from my office.

Just waiting for a 20" to come in to check the size. I usually ride a 19".

Streethawk, can you confirm the battery capacity, is it 11.6ah like the Crossfire/Vulcan ?

 

[Streethawk]

Streethawk, can you confirm the battery capacity, is it 11.6ah like the Crossfire/Vulcan ?

I didn't look too closely at that but it seems to be. I'll try and pop by there tomorrow to check.

 

[Streethawk]

It's 8.8ah, which is disappointing. Probably enough for my commute though. Exactly. The same casing as the suntour batteries.