Newbie attempting cyclamatic upgrade

[justmejc]

Hi all,
my first post on here, although I have been lurking in the background for a while!
I'm hoping you can help with an upgrade I'm trying.
I have an old 2012 24v / 250w cyclamatic, and have just tried connecting up a new 36v/48v controller unit using a 48v battery.

When I open the throttle I can hear the motor spinning, but it will not engage and drive the rear wheel motor.
I know that mechanically the motor is OK as it works with the 24v controller+battery, its just not powerful enough for the hilly corner of Somerset I live in.

Any idea why this might be happening, and is there a solution, or am I on a lost cause?

Any advice or suggestions welcome!

Thanks,
John

 

[vfr400]

It's spinning backwards. If the controller has self-learning, repeat the self-learning procedure until it rotates the right way.

48v will be too high for a Cyclamatic unless you're very light. 36v is the sweet spot. 44v (12S) is the max I'd go. It'll give a speed of 33mph, but the motor will run very inefficiently below 15 mph, which could cause it or the controller to burn. I think you'll run into bad heat problems at 48v.

Even with 36v, you need to raise the gearing substantially, which means a DNP 11/28 freewheel.

Which controller are you using?

 

[justmejc]

It's spinning backwards. If the controller has self-learning, repeat the self-learning procedure until it rotates the right way.

48v will be too high for a Cyclamatic unless you're very light. 36v is the sweet spot. 44v (12S) is the max I'd go. It'll give a speed of 33mph, but the motor will run very inefficiently below 15 mph, which could cause it or the controller to burn. I think you'll run into bad heat problems at 48v.

Even with 36v, you need to raise the gearing substantially, which means a DNP 11/28 freewheel.

Which controller are you using?

Thanks for your reply.
I have only borrowed a 48v battery to test with, so happy to go with 36v if better.
I was given a new (unused) controller kit, but unfortunately I dont have any instructions with it.
Its made by XunLida and called a Brainpower Motor Controller, Model 800A-6T
Rating 36/48v 350w

Do you know if this unit can self-learn, or have a link to instructions for it?
With regards to the freewheel, what do you mean by DNP?

 

[justmejc]

Hello, I have made some progress
I have now got the motor to drive the wheel by connecting the two green wires from the controller and following the self-learn procedure for the controller, so thanks for your advice.

I'm going to swap-out the rest of the items supplied in the kit (brakes, PAS) so that I can avoid cutting and reconnecting old plugs, then check again that all OK with the temporary 48v battery.

If all OK, as I'm on a tight budget I'd like to fit a new 36v battery in the original case with the output connectors at the bottom. Is this feasible to do, and can anybody offer any tips or advice.
Any recommendations for the battery? I dont need to travel big distances, but will be climbing some fairly long hills which I guess will draw a fair amount of power.

Cheers!

 

[vfr400]

It's dead easy to replace the cell-pack in those batteries. You can find them on 3bay or Aliexpress. Just make sure it's the right size to fit the case. Alternatively, you can use any battery you want and fit it anywhere you want.

 

[sangert]

Basic Manual and instructions for the controller 800A-6TView attachment 800A-6t-wire.gif

 

[sangert]

Controller instructionsView attachment 800A-6t.gif

 

[vfr400]

Those links don't show the current that the controller gives. What's written on the label. At 36v, you can go up to 20 amps, and maybe 15 amps at 48v.

It's a shame you didn't ask about all this before you started. Your controller allows max power in all levels because it uses speed control for the levels. The more power you allow, the worse the controllability gets. Basically, you get a rather uncomfortable jerkiness at low speed because it controls by switching max power on and off to regulate the speed. When you go for higher power, a controller that uses current (power) control is much better. Speed control is OK on the basic Cyclamatic with 24v and 12 or 14 amps, but once you go past 36v and 15 amps, it can be come a bit annoying.

Some controllers have a brown wire often paired with a white to reverse the motor direction. You plug them together to go one way, and unplug to go the other. This is mentioned in your instruction, but I don't see the brown wire in the diaagram. Controllers that have the seelf-learning wires normally reverse direction each time you do the self-learning procedure. Don't forget to disconnect thos wires after doing the self-learning, otherwise you can get the controller randomly reversing direction.

There's no speed sensor in the Cyclamatic, so you have to use a spoke magnet type to get the speed signal and connect it to the white wire that's on the motor connector, otherwise your speed will go to zero whenever you're coasting.

 

[justmejc]

Hi, Thanks both for your replies and advice.
I agree about the lack of planning, but as mentioned, I already had the bike laying unused in the back of the garage, and after being given/loaned the controller kit and the battery, decided to see if I could get it going.

The wiring diagram and instructions match my controller (thanks) and the details on the controller label are as follows:
36/48v 350w
lower volts 30/42v
Current limiting 13A
DegreeBrake : low (what does this mean?)
Angle: 120/60 (what does this mean?)

I have returned the 48v battery and am being lent a 36v 12ah to test with now, hopefully this will be a bit better.

 

[justmejc]

Hi again, sorry, but I have another question. I have just removed the chain wheel to fit the new PAS, but am now unsure which way round to fit the sensor plate. My understanding was that the arrows on the plate should point clockwise ie in the direction that you would pedal, but the old plate was the opposite way around. Both the old and new sensor plates are marked with a letter A on one side, and for the arrows to point clockwise, this would be on the outside for both plates.
Please could somebody explain the markings, and which is the correct way around?
Thanks

 

[Nealh]

Plug the sensor in and pass the disc pass the sensor to see which way is the correct orientation for working (not forgetting to have the drive wheel off the ground). Mark the disc face with stick tape so you know correct face, so much easier then fitting it all then find it is wrong.

 

[justmejc]

Hi, sorry but I have another question.
If I pass the sensor disc in front of the sensor as per the advice from Nealh the motor engages ok, but once I have the chainwheel fitted it doesn't work.
The gap between the plate and sensor is 3mm.
In the settings I have tried disabling/enabling the speed sensor but this doesnt fix it, and have left the option d set at 46 as I'm not sure what this refers to.

Please could anybody advise what to check?

Thanks

 

[Nealh]

The gap needs to be closer like 1mm.

 

[justmejc]

The gap needs to be closer like 1mm.

Thanks, reassembled with closer gap and its working now. Just waiting for the rain to stop then its time for a test ride.
Does the speed sensor have any limiting effect on the output from the motor? Hard to tell when testing the bike on the bench upside down, but it seems that when I pedal to activate the motor it cuts out once the wheel is spinning quite fast.
Also, in the settings what affect does setting P3 (speed detection signal) and P2 (motor magnetic pole conversion settings) have?
Thanks

 

[sjpt]

Does the speed sensor have any limiting effect on the output from the motor? Hard to tell when testing the bike on the bench upside down, but it seems that when I pedal to activate the motor it cuts out once the wheel is spinning quite fast.

For the bike to be legal the speed sensor should stop power to the motor at 15.5 mph (or equivalent if you aren't testing on the bench)