Only finding other brand bikes, No Kalkhoffs or Flyers

[Intex]

Today I went to a store nearby that only carried Electric Pedelecs. I was looking for the Kalkhoffs or Flyers to try, but all thy had were the following:
Giant Twist
Matra I-Step City
Helkama E-2800
Batavus Padova
Gazelle Easy Rider
Sparta Ion
Kogo-Miyata Tesla

Alot of these are models I am not familiar with, anybody familiar with these? Which would be most like a Flyer or ProConnect.

I am still trying to see a Kalkhoff or Flyer before I have to order

 

[flecc]

The nearest amongst those would be the Helkama and Gazelle, both using the standard Panasonic unit, but more like the Kalkhoff Agattu than the Pro Connect, i.e. a bit heavier and more roadster style.

The Sparta and Koga both use a low power direct drive motor, mainly good for the flat and not a good hill climber, designed in Holland so one might expect that. The Giant Twist is also quite a slow bike, not at all what you would be interested in.

I'm not familiar with that Matra model or the Batavus.
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[flecc]

Adding to the above, Derby Cycles who make the Kalkhoff and Raleigh brands of e-bikes have been struggling to meet the high demand for those very good bikes, so it's not surprising that none are sitting around in shops.

As the "Rolls Royce" of e-bikes, the BikeTech Flyer range are priced as befits that title, so are not stocked by many. We have just one agent in the whole of the UK who brings them in to order, so the position in France where you are at present is probably similar.

I've had a look at that Batavus model and it looks like the Sparta motor again, as also used in the Koga.

The Matra I've also looked at, and it uses the Canadian BionX motor in it's 250 watt European form, performance to 15 mph. If you buy a bike with that motor when back in the USA, it will be the 350 watt version, capable of 20 mph and better hill climbing.
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[Beanie101]

Intex, if you're in France at the moment, Flyer have a list of French distributors on their site Flyer France with the main HQ in Lyon but apparently nothing in Paris. High speed models are also available, according to the website.

 

[davidw]

Bike Tech Flyer range

A



As the "Rolls Royce" of e-bikes, the BikeTech Flyer range are priced as befits that title, so are not stocked by many.

Flecc
Is there a web site where I could look at these 'Rolls Royces' of e bikes?
David

 

[Hooligooner]

It's Swiss:

Here is a Babelfish translation of the site

 

[Rod Tibbs]

I look forward to Flecc's translation of the 'translation.' !!

Rod

 

[flecc]

I look forward to Flecc's translation of the 'translation.' !!

Rod

I think I'll leave the translation to the neighbour's baby, it's in his language.

Here's two links for BikeTech Flyers:

Bike store translated

and that original to try your own favourite translator

And the following is from a helpful post by Leonardo, an Italian member of our forum:

There are three generations of “Flyer” with Panasonic motor: the first one (for instance the C5) is discontinued and was very similar to the Twist. The second one has an improved motor (called “Plus”), and the third one (“Premium”) is the last generation, with a bit stronger uphill assistance. The Plus motor uses a 7.2ah Lithium battery and Premium one has now a 10ah Lithium battery.

There are now three series. The versions inside the same series differ usually for brakes and gears. Series are:

C (= Comfort), with a 26” wheel as the old Twist, available both with the “Plus” (C3 and C6) and the “Premium” motor (C8) and two frames (LDS and Cruiser).

T (= Trekking), with a 28” wheel and the “Premium” motor (in two frames and three versions).

And recently the S (= Sport), a MTB style 26 wheel with the “Premium” motor and “high speed” capability, since it is possible to have it with the assistance working till 35 km/h (in three versions).

There is also a very good little folding bike with the Plus motor (Faltrad) and a Tandem.

They are very expensive bicycles, starting in my country from more than 2000 euros for the entry level C3 plus (which I think would be the perfect substitute for a Lafree) and ending at more than 3500 euros for the best S version. Their Lithium batteries are very expensive as well and their particular engineering excludes recelling, as far as I can understand.

Here you can download the catalogue in German and we speak quite a lot of those bicycles in our Italian pedelec forum.
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[Danny-K]

I think I'll leave the translation to the neighbour's baby, it's in his language.

Here's two links for BikeTech Flyers:

Bike store translated

I like this bit on the frame-size options page -

"For a detailed analysis, we advise them happy."

 

[flecc]

I like this bit on the frame-size options page -

"For a detailed analysis, we advise them happy."

Wow! The Norwich gets everywhere!

Of course it could be a reference to how they take the inside leg measurement.
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[Beanie101]

I like this bit on the frame-size options page -

"For a detailed analysis, we advise them happy."

And then again, on the test page, "Before each course, we would like to purchase a SWISS FLYER extensively on heart and kidney test." I think I understand the heart being involved, but kidneys?? It must be something in the German psyche that gets lost in translation.

I've posted a review of the Flyer T14HS (in English) which is now up on the website Flyer T14 HS review

 

[flecc]

I think I understand the heart being involved, but kidneys??

Perhaps an indirect reference to the relaxation of the urinary sphincter causing involuntary micturition on learning the bike's price?
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[wotwozere]

Beanie

I am thinking of getting one of these what is the fastest speed you have achieved, does it recharge whilst pedalling, what was the delivery time and cost, I could not see this on the website.

Should I change the cogs to go faster still?

thx

Bob

 

[flecc]

While you are waiting for Beanie's reply Bob, none of these Panasonic systems have regenerative charging, it's impossible to include it on that design with the way it works.

The UK agent is Vita Electric and Alan there tells me that the Flyer S is expected in "soon", together with some other models including the excellent folder.
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[Beanie101]

Beanie

I am thinking of getting one of these what is the fastest speed you have achieved, does it recharge whilst pedalling, what was the delivery time and cost, I could not see this on the website.

Should I change the cogs to go faster still?

thx

Bob

Bob

Flecc has answered on the regeneration point.

It's difficult for me to say exactly what speed can consistently be achieved with the high speed version on the flat, as such surfaces are in very short supply here in the Alps. I do about 10 kph on most upward slopes and yesterday reached 65 kph on a downward one (I need to get some goggles - I couldn't see anything). My guess is that a steady 35kph ought to be achievable on the flat without breaking too much of a sweat.

If you are based in the UK, you probably won't be allowed to buy a high speed version from the UK distributor, as it is illegal on UK roads. I'm told that certain naughty Brits have taken to buying their HS bikes in Switzerland and taking them home on the top of the car. I'm also told that there is no way of telling from the chassis number or outward appearance which model you have, although the Rohloff hub is a bit of a giveaway to cognoscenti (I doubt that that includes HM Constabulary).

Last time I checked, the price of the T14 HS was about CHF 6,000 (£3,000) and delivery had dropped from 10 weeks to 6 weeks. These bikes are made to order, down to what colour mudguards you want.

It's also possible to buy various versions second hand off the Flyer site 2nd hand Flyers.

I'm a bit of a speed freak (cars, skiing) and I think the Rohloff spread of gears (>500%) is quite sufficient to give most lunatics the high speed that they crave without changing the sprockets.

Hope this helps.

 

[davidw]

A



As the "Rolls Royce" of e-bikes, the BikeTech Flyer range are priced as befits that title, so are not stocked by many.

Flecc
Why are these the "Rolls Royce" of e bikes - apart from the very high cost?
David

 

[Beanie101]

Because the company is owned by people who speak German?

 

[flecc]

Flecc
Why are these the "Rolls Royce" of e bikes - apart from the very high cost?
David

They're made in Switzerland in the best Swiss precision engineering tradition David, to the highest possible standards, regardless of cost, therefore very much to the traditional Rolls Royce formula. Bought in components like Shimano and B & M are normally high end, on the most expensive bikes the best that money can buy.

Although most models use the Panasonic unit, they've been responsible for designing some variant features on it like a "walk alongside" throttle, handy for the steepest slopes that a weak rider might not be able to handle, and high speed versions capable of exceeding 30 mph. Some of their developments have been adopted by Panasonic as options for manufacturers.

One thing is always included, an unbeatable pride of ownership.
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[Beanie101]

One thing is always included, an unbeatable pride of ownership.
.

I'll second that.

 

[davidw]

They're made in Switzerland in the best Swiss precision engineering tradition David, to the highest possible standards, regardless of cost, therefore very much to the traditional Rolls Royce formula. Bought in components like Shimano and B & M are normally high end, on the most expensive bikes the best that money can buy.

Although most models use the Panasonic unit, they've been responsible for designing some variant features on it like a "walk alongside" throttle, handy for the steepest slopes that a weak rider might not be able to handle, and high speed versions capable of exceeding 30 mph. Some of their developments have been adopted by Panasonic as options for manufacturers.

One thing is always included, an unbeatable pride of ownership.
.

Thank you Flecc. Your knowledge base makes this forum a wonderful place for the rest of us to learn.
David