Power levels and cadence..

Mar 9, 2016
833
402
Did my normal Lady Bower route this morning. Its 26 miles, mixed tracks,2 miles on road , 3big climbs but no single or technical tracks .
Normally do route in standard , occasional high and end with 20% .
Decided to do route in eco. Average speed dropped from 13 2 to 11.5 but I had 38% left.
So carried on cycling to use up battery.
First of all high is just such a pleasure after eco, but what I did notice was in high my natural cadence is a good deal higher.
On lower setting I tend to naturally drop to around 60 rpm and have to remind myself to lift it.
On high settings I gravitate towards 80..( and more)
Anybody else noticed similar. High settings are fostering good habits??
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,790
30,369
On high settings I gravitate towards 80..( and more)
Anybody else noticed similar.
Yes, though for me it feels the other way around to get the same effect.

It's when the e-power is low that I'm tempted to get into the bad habit of slogging at slower cadences and have to resist that.

With the power raised there's no need to do that so I happily spin at higher cadences.
.
 

Lumos

Pedelecer
Apr 19, 2015
67
29
62
On the Bosch am I the only one who feels patronised with the little symbol that tells you when to change up or down? It really does not like me spinning.
 

Croxden

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2013
2,134
1,384
North Staffs
On the Bosch am I the only one who feels patronised with the little symbol that tells you when to change up or down? It really does not like me spinning.
My symbol tells me I'm not spinning fast enough, presume it's temperature sensitive to protect the motor. I don't have fast legs, more diesel than petrol, like an old Gardner engine.
 

mab13

Pedelecer
Jun 23, 2015
153
120
45
Peak District
From what I've read, higher cadence rates deplete the battery more slowly than grinding away.

Mine doesn't advise me when to shift, but I'd have though any advice would try to keep your cadence rate relatively high...
 

Steve UKLSRA

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 29, 2015
318
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Porthmadog
www.ukbusas.org
From what I've read, higher cadence rates deplete the battery more slowly than grinding away.

Mine doesn't advise me when to shift, but I'd have though any advice would try to keep your cadence rate relatively high...
That's certainly right on the Bafang BBS02 motors...I ride my 750W in power level 3 of 9 in all situations after months of trying different cadence/power levels, the cadence is relatively low to what I'm used to, but it is relentless (like a non-stoppable...erm...slug) up hills and will climb 45 degrees at a fast walking pace whilst steering round rocks etc...on a full charge it'll run 20mph and drop to 18 when the batt starts to fade, fast enough for the tracks/chutes round here.
 

Artstu

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 2, 2009
2,420
925
On the Bosch am I the only one who feels patronised with the little symbol that tells you when to change up or down? It really does not like me spinning.
I can't say I've seen that. my Bosch system is 3 years old, was it added to the newer ones?
 

culy30

Pedelecer
Feb 4, 2016
46
13
Hereford
That's certainly right on the Bafang BBS02 motors...I ride my 750W in power level 3 of 9 in all situations after months of trying different cadence/power levels, the cadence is relatively low to what I'm used to, but it is relentless (like a non-stoppable...erm...slug) up hills and will climb 45 degrees at a fast walking pace whilst steering round rocks etc...on a full charge it'll run 20mph and drop to 18 when the batt starts to fade, fast enough for the tracks/chutes round here.
Before I reconfigured my BBS02 I rode around in PAS 3 most of the time. It seems to me that riding in PAS 3 all the time is like putting a motorbike in 3rd gear and expecting it to perform no matter what the terrain/conditions. You're getting away with it due to the huge torque of the BBS02 48v motor. I'd suggest that adjusting the PAS to suit the trail/road conditions is a better solution. It puts less stress on the motor, controller, gearing, drive train and your legs/knees. I do understand the issues of getting the controller settings to your liking. I've found that the usual approach of "limit speed"(cadence) and "keep current" to be the culprits here.

I've configured my BBS02 500w 36v to allow high cadence so that it feels more like a normal bike using the programming cable and software referred to elsewhere on this forum. I really like the result AND I get over 3hrs in PAS 4-6 on a charge (18AH 60 x 30Q Samsung cell pack).. Mostly rolling roads, occasional +25% hills and some easy trails. I once got over 4 hrs in PAS 2&3 albeit at a slower pace, just to see how long it would run. Battery voltage was 34.5v after 60 miles! Still enough left to make it to a pub/car/home.

Here's what I've done. (Remember I have a 36v motor and if you have an older 48v BBS02 with crappy mosfets keep the cadence up, reduce the limit current and dont ride in PAS 9 all the time!)

  • Fit a 42t chainring.
  • Set display settings to 9 PAS levels and 50kph max speed. 29er wheel (700c) . I have the C961 display.
  • In the Programming settings I've set Limit Speed to 100% in all PAS levels. You can then pedal as fast as you like...........my average is around 93rpm, but cadence is only limited by your ability to spin.
  • Limit Current to 15Amps (from 25A) 15 x 36 = 540watts which is more than most professional MTB'ers can maintain for long and you can add your input to this. (say 150-300w depending on fitness)
  • Start Current 15%-to protect the controller. It will feel a little slow/more like a normal bike to get going at first.
  • Low start mode 4
  • Startup degree 4
  • Work mode undetermined
  • Time of stop (x10ms) 5
  • Current decay 8
  • Stop decay (x10ms) 0 So that the motor stops immediately
  • Keep current 100%, so the motor doesn't back off just when you need it to help a little more!
Limit Current % settings in each PAS

I dont have a throttle fitted. Suggest setting PAS 0 to 1 for both Limit current and Limit speed.
  1. 22
  2. 24
  3. 27
  4. 32
  5. 40
  6. 50
  7. 62
  8. 79
  9. 100

To start with I reduced the Limit current to 20 Amps. The bike was actually too fast, so I dropped to 18 amps, then 16amps, now I find 15amps perfect. I'm 72 kilos+ the bike is a hefty 19 kilos all up inc spare tubes, pump, water bottle etc.

I set the low PAS settings quite close so I can tune the pace when riding with others. As you go faster, wind resistance has more effect, so you need more power to increase speed the faster you go. You also need to factor in power to weight ratios. If you're heavy, you need more power especially climbing, so just go up to a higher PAS level. You'll need to reduce the PAS level when you're back on the flat.

These settings might not suit your needs, you may need to tinker with the Limit Current % in each PAS. I tend to set off in PAS 1 and go up to around 3 or 4 depending on who I'm with and how windy/hilly it is. The buety is not having the cadence restricted at all. (apart from the motors ability to assist you in a given gear, if you feel the bike bogging down and your cadence dropping, you just change down until your cadence is comfortable or increase PAS to increase the speed to match a comfortable cadence)

I am finding that my 9 speed 11-34 cassette ratios are a little wide. Sometimes I could do with another intermediate gear. Top gear is fine. (27.8mph @ 90rpm) Bottom gear is little high on very steep climbs, a 36 cog would help to keep cadence over 60rpm on the steepest climbs. ie 5.7mph. I may switch to a 10 or 11 speed setup with a 11-36 cassette. I dont think I need a 40 or 42t. I'd prefer slightly closer ratios throughout the range.
 

Steve UKLSRA

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 29, 2015
318
293
Porthmadog
www.ukbusas.org
We ride purely off-road on very steep/rocky inclines and I couldn't go any faster than walking pace without messing up/trashing my wheels, so PAS 3 is sufficient for me and the motor is cold even after a mile climb (I frequently pedal faster than the motor and it only kicks in when the bike and me stall on a big rock)...the info you've given is great, so I'll take note and adjust a few things. My wifes BBS02 500 is easier to ride as you have stated, but it doesn't feel as brutal as the 750 and both have their plus points (ours are all the latest motors with upgraded mosfets). We ride with 32 to 38 front sprockets depending on the terrain we're riding on the day with 11-36 10 speed cassettes, although I have got a set of MTX39 wheels in the garage with a rear Hope Pro2 Trials/SS hub which I am in the process of fabricating a 6 speed sprocket for.

Thanks again for the programming info, it's all got to help...we tend to get 3 hours/30-40 miles out of our 11.6Ah Samsung 29 batt packs, but the wife can get another 20 as she pedals even more than us and doesn't like to speed.
 

Steve UKLSRA

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 29, 2015
318
293
Porthmadog
www.ukbusas.org
Where do you ride Steve?
We're local to you Flud...our regulars are Roych Clough, Jacobs Ladder and Doctors Gate with the associated routes to get there...we're fond of Hope Cross (The Beast) too, but that normally involves the van to get us to the cafe in Hope first.
We've done the Roman Road, etc near Ladybower, but that needs the van to get to the butty van in the A57 layby, so we tend to include the first three as they are within reach from home.
I've put in a pre-order with BGA for a programming lead as I'm interested in tweaking our bikes to each personal preference (thanks for the kick up the a**e Culy30;)).
We're 53yo and get some strange looks when we're up int'thills playing in the big boys playground, but before my heart prob three years ago we were cutting it on regular AM and DH bikes...the Haibike we had got me back cycling and the Bafangs have just taken it to another level (I'm an ex-MX/Enduro rider and miss the fun we used to have on the same trails 20+ years ago when there wasn't the same stigma of riding a motorcycle up there).
If you can recommend any routes we're missing I'd be grateful as we're always up for new challenges (our goal this summer is to do the whole of the Pennine Bridleway):confused:
 
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georgehenry

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2015
1,435
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Surrey
Hi Steve UKLSRA, I recently did two days Green Laning in the Peak District that certainly included a lot of steep rocky tracks. The optimistic leader took us (All 55+ except him on old/very old twinshocks Pre 1960 to1978) up hollingsclough which was fun! Worth a look on youtube. We also did beautiful high moors etc and everything in-between , fantastic couple of days.

So I know how steep and rocky the tracks you do can be. I am commuting back and forth to work on a Haibike sDuro Yamaha, and loving it but I use it purely as a good fun way of getting to work and back that gives me some exercise.

I like the sound of your 750w BBSO2 conversion of a full suspension mountain bike. That sounds like a lot of fun off road and you can always find room for another bike.

Peak Hollinsclough 20160503_131130.jpg
Hollinsclough with me putting my rear chain back on/adjusting said chain before the steep bit! Perfect place for the chain to come off!
Peak 20160503_112334.jpg
Me crossing a river on 1978 Honda XL250
 
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