pro connect advice...

[keithhazel]

i have been pushed forward somewhat unexpectedly today as was supposedly showing my Quando to g/f's friend who then decided it was exactly what she needed to solve her family dilema..so she asked what i wanted for it...i explained about depreciation and the possibility of having to replace the battery, (although mine although lacking the "punch" it had when brand new would still do the 20 miles on the flat)..and although i dont do the long journeys on it no more but still use it for running here and there and its dead good for that, it poses the problem of me getting even more unfit and never being able to go for the "ultimate" bike for fitness and distance rides..after much waffling i said £500....."will you take £550 for it ?" she said...not only is my g/f unusual but so are her friends ....i didnt want to but for the sake of moving on and upward i did, so now im looking at my original question......my needs are... yes local trips with panniers/ dropping off and collecting my work is first use but also the second use which the Quando could never be used for...the 43 mile trip to my g/f.....yes it sounds a mouthful but if i break down my normal journey its as follows...0710 leave house on foot, 0716 bus to train station ..arrive.o743..train departs 0808 arrive doncaster 0900...bus departs 0915 arrive 0940...2 hours 30 mins.....cost of £6 train fare.....(i have a bus pass for free bus travel) ..
cycle route..
hull to doncaster is as far as most on here concerned.."as hilly as holland".. a few minor long inclines but nothing a fit person on a normal bike would have much trouble with......the question is with the rear cogs modified to smaller ones for the speed will it get me the 43 miles at a constant full speed without breaking into a sweat..im hoping this will be the 20mph.....also im hopeless at tyre changeing so would have to have the best puncture proof ones on so what are they and instructions to take to the bike shop regarding fitting of smaller cogs and how many links to take out of chain...
also having looked at walk through one and crossbar one am i able to achieve the same purchace/pressure/force in the easy relaxed step through version as i would as crossbar one as although i really like crossbar one i have enjoyed the step through of my Quando....
all replies will be thankfully read and appreciated.
keith

 

[JohnInStockie]

That's a tall order Keith. I've not tested mine like that, so I cant say whether it would cut it.

I'd speculate that in order to get 43 miles (only low mode) you probably will sweat a bit. I would guess (not tried this) that with the 18T sprocket change, you would probably just make the 43 miles too, but I would take it a bit easier, maybe try and maintain say 19 mph.

I dont know if I would be up for that 2 hours + of riding.

John

 

[flecc]

A step though on the Kalkhoffs would be just as efficient as a crossbar model due to their very strong frames.

Whether you could get one onto the train you are intending to use I don't know of course, but on a standard Agattu the 43 miles is possible in good conditions (no strong winds) if you are prepared to cycle without power whenever the going is easy. Alternatively it would be possible if you only use the Eco mode all the time and do three quarters of the work yourself. However, all batteries lose capacity over time, so it might not be as possible after the first year.

If you changed the sprocket for a smaller one as you suggest, the answer is that you wont do that 43 miles, owners postings in here clearly indicating how that cuts the range.

I'm not confident you'd do it on a standard Pro Connect either, since they are slightly more powerful which in turn means a slightly higher consumption, and with a smaller sprocket it's almost certainly not on unless you put in much of the work.

Another consideration is that the Quando will have spoiled you due to it's power making the going so easy as we both know, so a Panasonic unit bike continuously requiring around half of all the effort could come as a bit of a shock.

P.S. Crossed with John's post.
.

 

[keithhazel]

P.S. Crossed with John's post.
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thanks john and flecc, maybe not what i was hoping to hear but very useful, guess i wanted cake with jam on it too.... i wasnt aiming to get on the train with it though tony, i did with my Quando no problem but the problem was at doncaster when i got off and had 8-9 miles to do..it gets so boring just siting on the throttle its painfull, and at least 2 buses pass me en route, so thats why i dropped using the Quando for the trip when i got my bus pass, also that was when i bought my brompton as i could carry that onto the bus no problem although as journeys to the bus stops are not the problem as i can walk the 200 yards.. ...as for the two hours pedalling, i think once you are on the flat its not much more then turning your legs round and round as assist will hopefully do the rest, maybe use a bit more power for head wind..
i wonder if they will rent me one for a week with rental back if i purchase a new one .............and yes i got really spoilt with Quando with no pedaling, however im used to walking loads and have no doubt that it wont take long to get into 2 hours pedaling as long as its not sweaty work... for a week last month this was never a thought as my national bus pass was valid on train journeys and then railways asked our council for money in leu of the journeys and the council did a u turn ....

 

[flecc]

Another possibility Keith, though I wouldn't be too keen on a regular 43 mile journey on either bike.

The very similar Agattu is £200 less than the Pro Connect, so that would mean you could have two batteries for only £95 extra above the Pro Connect price. Then you could have a smaller sprocket and use the High Power mode the whole way.
.

 

[keithhazel]

Another possibility Keith, though I wouldn't be too keen on a regular 43 mile journey on either bike.

The very similar Agattu is £200 less than the Pro Connect, so that would mean you could have two batteries for only £95 extra above the Pro Connect price. Then you could have a smaller sprocket and use the High Power mode the whole way.
.

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now that is definatly a good idea Tony, much pondering on that thought.. thank you..i will have to read up what people have said about range and speed..

 

[JamesC]

Hi Keith

I would agree that it is very good advice to need 2 batteries to safely do 43 miles.

I use a 19T sprocket on my ProConnect and quite often choose to cycle to the east on completely flat ground in the Lincolnshire fens (always taking my second battery in the saddle bag).

I keep a record of mileage and battery usage, and the surprising thing is that I get higher mileage from the batteries when there are gentle hills, and lower mileage when it is completely flat.

I think the reason is that I never switch off the power, preferring to be assisted all the time.

On the flat, this means that the battery assists me for the whole journey and I enjoy to cycle at about 17 mph on full power with a range of about 26 miles per battery.

In rolling countryside, the speed drops only a little on the uphill section and I think the motor continues to use the same power from the battery.

But going downhill, the pressure on the pedals is much less, sometimes freewheeling, so the battery is hardly in use.

Therefore, I can go 3 or 4 miles further when I ride to the west into the rolling countryside of Northants and Rutland, without much penalty on speed.

Immediately members will say that I should be switching off the power when riding on the flat - true, but I would not maintain the speed and would miss the pleasure of assisted ebiking.

James

 

[keithhazel]

Hi Keith

I would agree that it is very good advice to need 2 batteries to safely do 43 miles.

I use a 19T sprocket on my ProConnect and quite often choose to cycle to the east on completely flat ground in the Lincolnshire fens (always taking my second battery in the saddle bag).

I keep a record of mileage and battery usage, and the surprising thing is that I get higher mileage from the batteries when there are gentle hills, and lower mileage when it is completely flat.

I think the reason is that I never switch off the power, preferring to be assisted all the time.

On the flat, this means that the battery assists me for the whole journey and I enjoy to cycle at about 17 mph on full power with a range of about 26 miles per battery.

In rolling countryside, the speed drops only a little on the uphill section and I think the motor continues to use the same power from the battery.

But going downhill, the pressure on the pedals is much less, sometimes freewheeling, so the battery is hardly in use.

Therefore, I can go 3 or 4 miles further when I ride to the west into the rolling countryside of Northants and Rutland, without much penalty on speed.

Immediately members will say that I should be switching off the power when riding on the flat - true, but I would not maintain the speed and would miss the pleasure of assisted ebiking.

James

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thanks james for your views which also are very important as you talk about "flat" cycleing which is all i will have, is 17mph the top speed with your 19t sprocket ?...i would be looking for 20mph which is probably the same effort as you put in with your 19t as maybe i would do with the lowest one...of course im just guessing here as have no experience...
also i wondered as have heard that you have to stop pedaling when you change gears....if you are accelerating through them from a standing start does the stopping pedaling each time throw you out of your stride....

 

[JamesC]

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thanks james for your views which also are very important as you talk about "flat" cycleing which is all i will have, is 17mph the top speed with your 19t sprocket ?...i would be looking for 20mph which is probably the same effort as you put in with your 19t as maybe i would do with the lowest one...of course im just guessing here as have no experience.......

Your calculation is about right to say that 17mph with 19T sprocket would allow about 20mph with the 16T sprocket, but I think you will still want the assistance on the medium or high setting to maintain a speed close to 20mph on the flat.

As a result, you might only get about 22 miles from the battery when it has settled in.

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also i wondered as have heard that you have to stop pedaling when you change gears....if you are accelerating through them from a standing start does the stopping pedaling each time throw you out of your stride....

No - you will get the hang of this fine. You also get the benefit of being able to change the gear when stationary.

So I tend to stay in a high gear (7th or 8th) right up to a junction, then stop to wait for traffic whilst clicking the chagedown lever 2 or 3 times to put it in 5th or 6th.

After setting off, I find that I now stop pedalling for that moment with my feet in the same position for each change (right foot at the top of the circle). This gives a nice strong downstroke just after the change and the rhythm quickly returns.

In considering the change from the Quando to the Agattu or ProConnect, you will find that it feels very different with the need to pedal all the time. Certainly at the beginning you will want to have the Kalkhoff bike on full assist, then gradually use lower assistance as you get back to regular cycling. It would be safest to plan your distance based around the full assist setting, allowing you to reduce the assistance when you want a bit more exercise.

Speaking for myself, I enjoy to stay on full assist !!

James

 

[keithhazel]

Your calculation is about right to say that 17mph with 19T sprocket would allow about 20mph with the 16T sprocket, but I think you will still want the assistance on the medium or high setting to maintain a speed close to 20mph on the flat.
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excuse me for appearing dsylexic but are you saying to maintain 20mph which i must have, that 16t is too low or merely that it will reduce my distance down to about 22 miles ?...if thats the case then having two batteries will solve any problem there
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the rest of what you say has set my mind at rest on them points too...
thanks james

 

[JamesC]

Your calculation is about right to say that 17mph with 19T sprocket would allow about 20mph with the 16T sprocket, but I think you will still want the assistance on the medium or high setting to maintain a speed close to 20mph on the flat.
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excuse me for appearing dsylexic but are you saying to maintain 20mph which i must have, that 16t is too low or merely that it will reduce my distance down to about 22 miles ?...if thats the case then having two batteries will solve any problem there
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the rest of what you say has set my mind at rest on them points too...
thanks james

A standard ProConnect has 23 teeth on the rear sprocket and a range of 8 gears in the hub. This sprocket is the biggest number of teeth that is available, and limits the bike to slow speeds in top gear.

In top gear (8th) and with the switch on the highest level of assistance, the motor will work with you up to 15mph, leaving you to do all of the work if you want to pedal faster than 15mph.

Your legs can go fast enough to pedal up to about 18mph, but of course you are doing all the work so it depends on your fitness as to how long you can keep this up.


The bike needs to be able to do higher speeds in top gear. The smallest sprocket that can be fitted has 16 teeth, allowing you to keep pedalling up to about 25mph in top gear. This is would be hard work on the flat for a strong cyclist, but certainly good fun on the downhill stretches. Remember that at 25mph you are above the speed where the motor gives you any assistance, having to do it all yourself.

With the 16 teeth, the motor has stopped all help by 21/22 mph. So you need to be quite fit to maintain this speed on your own.

You are looking to maintain 20 mph on the flat which means that the motor will be able to provide some help.

Other members that use this setup can provide data on how long the battery might last at 20 mph with a 16t sprocket. I think it might be around 21-22 miles only.


I use a sprocket in the middle, and my speed settles down to 16/17mph when there is no wind. To go faster, I would need to do all of the work myself.

I get 25-26 miles from the battery on the high assist setting.


Of course, these bikes are quite comfortable to ride after the battery has run out, but an ecyclist is likely to drop down to quite a slow speed. It is always difficult to imagine another person's fitness.

What speed do you do on your Brompton on the long flat roads ?

James

 

[stokepa31_mk2]

Keith

I can maintain 20mph on very flat sections with an 18 tooth setup on my agattu but tend to average around 15.8mph over a 22 mile run. I do not think you will cover your 43 miles in 2 hours and it will be nearer to three unless the route is completely flat. Even slight inclines have a huge impact on average speed. Is there any way you can put your route into bikely.com to let us see the gradient graph.

a cheaper way of solving the problem would be to marry your gfriend and move her in with you

 

[ElephantsGerald]

Hi Keith,

How often are you planning on doing this journey, and will your g/f be able to cope with the state you're in when you arrive? I think you'll find yourself absolutely cream-crackered with a very sore bum the first few times you do this

I think I'm right in saying that one of the reasons you're keen on the Kalkhoff's is that they 'force' you to pedal, so you can't get away with being lazy, and you'll get fitter.

I have a hub-motored bike which I 'could' use as a moped, but with a 2x16 mile hilly commute, I pedal all the time simply because I want to arrive at my destination some time before nightfall! With 43 miles to do I think you'd find yourself pedalling (a lot!) whatever kind of bike you had.

43 miles is a heck of a journey, and you might really appreciate the ability to kick back and moped along for a bit after say the first 30 miles, so I think you ought to consider the Ezee's and Wispers too.

IMO 2x batteries is the only realistic way to achieve your ends.

Good luck!

Regards,

Elephants

 

[JohnInStockie]

Keith

I can maintain 20mph on very flat sections with an 18 tooth setup on my agattu but tend to average around 15.8mph over a 22 mile run.

I'm similar with my 18T Pro-Connect, I average 16.5 mph over a 21 mile run, hitting 20 mph on the flat, and down to 2 of the 5 lights remaining. So you can see with these pedelecs that rider contribution is a major factor.

John

 

[JamesC]

Thanks for adding your figures everyone.

Just coming back to the very flat terrain that I often ride over, and might be similar to Keith's area ..........

When you talk of doing 20/22 mile rides, and getting up to 20 mph on the flat, are you honestly saying that your average speed would move up from say 16.5 mph to 20 mph when riding in the fens.

I reckon it is quite hard work to maintain a steady average of 20 mph on the flat on a 20 mile ride, but I think it would be possible with the 16 T sprocket, albeit with quite a high level of assistance.

James

 

[stokepa31_mk2]

Thanks for adding your figures everyone.

Just coming back to the very flat terrain that I often ride over, and might be similar to Keith's area ..........

When you talk of doing 20/22 mile rides, and getting up to 20 mph on the flat, are you honestly saying that your average speed would move up from say 16.5 mph to 20 mph when riding in the fens.

I reckon it is quite hard work to maintain a steady average of 20 mph on the flat on a 20 mile ride, but I think it would be possible with the 16 T sprocket, albeit with quite a high level of assistance.

James

James

Im quite comfortable at 20mph on the flat but ive never really had to sustain it beyond 2 or three miles as there is always a small hill or descent just round the corner. im quite confident that i could though. im now only using two lights for my 22 miles as i tend to switch off on the flat and downhill so perhaps i'm not a good example for this purpose

 

[Blew it]

I've just had an idea!

Hi Keith,

As already suggested, A Wisper 905 sport, To which you could add a flat shaped carrier or pannier mounted AlienOcean Lithium battery. The Wisper battery lead is a simple IEC Europlug (kettle plug). The Alien battery could be fitted with a flying IEC eurosocket. When one battery becomes exhausted it would be easy to stop, and swap the power lead to the next battery. The Alien battery is £266 including charger. The Wisper 905 sport is £1266 delivered. Total cost would be £1532. This would give you a machine that could probably meet your demanding specification. ANY machine capable of the range and speed you require cannot possibly come cheaply.

The Wisper 905 is fitted with a very large chainring (53 teeth I think), This means even an old codger like me can pedal quite comfortably at 20 MPH with a reasonable cadence, I would further add, as other Wisper owners have found, when the machine is de-restricted It gives you an infinitely variable amount of assist, regulated by the throttle. I haven't had the chance yet to carry out range tests using an additional battery ( gardens wait for nobody!!). These tests should start later this week.

I agree entirely with the sentiments of other members, 43 miles is a helluva journey Keith. Several times a year I ride a round trip of 32 miles crosscountry. At the end of those jaunts I'm feeling pretty weary. Fair enough, the saddle soreness wears of before bedtime, but the tiredness spreads into the next day as well.

Any ways Keith, good luck with your quest for a long range bike.

Best wishes to you and yours

Bob

Addition: The Alien battery is already fitted with an IEC eurosocket. if the battery was fitted well forward on the carrier, the Wisper power lead might just reach.

 

[keithhazel]

A standard ProConnect has 23 teeth on the rear sprocket and a range of 8 gears in the hub. This sprocket is the biggest number of teeth that is available, and limits the bike to slow speeds in top gear.

In top gear (8th) and with the switch on the highest level of assistance, the motor will work with you up to 15mph, leaving you to do all of the work if you want to pedal faster than 15mph.

Your legs can go fast enough to pedal up to about 18mph, but of course you are doing all the work so it depends on your fitness as to how long you can keep this up.


The bike needs to be able to do higher speeds in top gear. The smallest sprocket that can be fitted has 16 teeth, allowing you to keep pedalling up to about 25mph in top gear. This is would be hard work on the flat for a strong cyclist, but certainly good fun on the downhill stretches. Remember that at 25mph you are above the speed where the motor gives you any assistance, having to do it all yourself.

With the 16 teeth, the motor has stopped all help by 21/22 mph. So you need to be quite fit to maintain this speed on your own.

You are looking to maintain 20 mph on the flat which means that the motor will be able to provide some help.

Other members that use this setup can provide data on how long the battery might last at 20 mph with a 16t sprocket. I think it might be around 21-22 miles only.


I use a sprocket in the middle, and my speed settles down to 16/17mph when there is no wind. To go faster, I would need to do all of the work myself.

I get 25-26 miles from the battery on the high assist setting.


Of course, these bikes are quite comfortable to ride after the battery has run out, but an ecyclist is likely to drop down to quite a slow speed. It is always difficult to imagine another person's fitness.

What speed do you do on your Brompton on the long flat roads ?

James

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thanks james for your info, as for brompton speed im not sure as no speedo on it, but i have to say im pretty impressed with its gearing, i only have 3 gears but its excellant, im guessing it could be about 15mph as feels the same as on my Quando used to feel,but again as i have done no work while useing the Quando its not been an easy ride, i did about 5 miles today and reckon i will sleep well tonight.... ...really really impresssed i am with the brompton as instead of 3 minutes locking with my 3 chains, in and out of the seat and other pinchable areas, i just fold it up and walk in with it,however its not for distance rides even though geared good...

 

[keithhazel]

Keith

I can maintain 20mph on very flat sections with an 18 tooth setup on my agattu but tend to average around 15.8mph over a 22 mile run. I do not think you will cover your 43 miles in 2 hours and it will be nearer to three unless the route is completely flat. Even slight inclines have a huge impact on average speed. Is there any way you can put your route into bikely.com to let us see the gradient graph.

a cheaper way of solving the problem would be to marry your gfriend and move her in with you

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the route is HU10 6TH to DN9 3EU......you technical sort will handle that

i have to say im really really not looking at having a pedelec bike that averages in the 15s as i could sit with my feet up for 21 miles on my Quando but its more boring then checking my spelling befor posting.. .. i do realise to do 43 miles on a bike that has top speed of about 22mph wont do it in 2 hours, didnt realise i had put that..sorry makes me look dumb. .. i was hoping to match the bus/train/bus time of 2 and half hours...as for marry g/f yes it would save me £1700 but it wont get me back to fitness,unless i then need the bike to get away on long journeys for a day..lol...we have only been dateing 5 years so too early to rush in....

 

[keithhazel]

Hi Keith,

How often are you planning on doing this journey, and will your g/f be able to cope with the state you're in when you arrive? I think you'll find yourself absolutely cream-crackered with a very sore bum the first few times you do this

I think I'm right in saying that one of the reasons you're keen on the Kalkhoff's is that they 'force' you to pedal, so you can't get away with being lazy, and you'll get fitter.

I have a hub-motored bike which I 'could' use as a moped, but with a 2x16 mile hilly commute, I pedal all the time simply because I want to arrive at my destination some time before nightfall! With 43 miles to do I think you'd find yourself pedalling (a lot!) whatever kind of bike you had.

43 miles is a heck of a journey, and you might really appreciate the ability to kick back and moped along for a bit after say the first 30 miles, so I think you ought to consider the Ezee's and Wispers too.

IMO 2x batteries is the only realistic way to achieve your ends.

Good luck!

Regards,

Elephants

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thanks elephants.. cant say about how often im planning,planning is one thing my g/f doesnt do/like/want.....but i generally go once a week, more at the moment as keeping my eye on her after she feel off a parking meter pedestal and knocked herself out..and ended up in hospital ..doh !!!!!!!!
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"cream-crackered with a very sore bum the first few times you do this "
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yes you dead right there...just as im feeling now after my 5 mile run on my brompton instead of my run on my Quando "power only" mode

yes you are right about forcing myself to pedal instead of being lazy and power only, but if i have a speedy power only bike it will be the as when on my Quando, i could pedal at 12mph or power only at 15.5mph..hard to pedal on that basis isnt it, especially when you have a 9 mile journey.....or did when i used to use the train to doncaster and ride from there...

2 batteries imsure it will need which unfortunaly adds the cost up....catch 22 really, im so bored with the long 2 and half hour journey on bus/train/bus and getting unfitter by the minute, but the cost of bike and extra battery and maybe extra charger feels absurd, im not sure i would dare tell anyone the cost..lol.. ...