Rear hub drive comparison lists or tables?

[Domm]

Hi all,

I've been reading a lot about ebike conversion ideas lately but I think I'm forgetting more than I'm learning and my browser keeps crashing from 100's of open tabs!

Are there any quick comparison lists or tables available anywhere on the pros/cons of all the geared hub motor options? Like torque, max speed, reliability for example? I can't tell my swx02 from my q128's or my tonqxins from my xfo8's, yose power, cute, mac, cst, bpm etc etc my head is spinning!

I've searched Google, this forum and endless sphere but can't see it summarised or laid out simply anywhere.

I was ideally looking at ones labeled 250w and then getting a 52V or 48V battery and a 20A controller to increase torque for hills but it seems common (like some bafang and yose power ones) for them to be (frustratingly) labeled 350w even though the difference is effectively arbitrary anyway.

As an example I'd be looking for something like this:

Labeled watts

Size and weight

Cassette or freewheel?

Reliability (perceived/anecdotal maybe but helpful)

Torque

Max reported/recommended reliable Volts/Amps

Inrunner/outrunner (to see if they can be oil cooled)

Prices and recommended/trusted suppliers.

If there's anything out there would be a great resource.

 

[Woosh]

motors are parts of systems - what comes out of your motor depends essentially on the controller, the wheel diameter, the battery, the bike weight and gradient of the road you are on..
I use the motor emulator at http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html
I recommend it to anyone who wants to explore this subject.
You can select your motor, controller, battery, total weight, gradient, throttle, pedal power etc and see the result (power, torque, load) plotted versus speed.

 

[Domm]

Cool!.... I think... There are a lot more there than I've heard of so I may end up just getting more confused! Also no bafang swx02 (unless it also has another name) or q128 or yose power (but aware this is the company not the motor which is unclear what it is).

Yup, just played with it a bit and getting more confused!

I was hoping for something a bit more "laymans terms".

Woosh, I see you offer the bafang swx02 and the mxus xf08 on your website. What are the pros/cons of these and why did you pick them out of all of the options? I see swx02 is a screw on freewheel, I think mine is a cassette. Is this a big deal/deciding factor? Is it possible to get a cassette version of swx02 or is the mxus just similar but for people with a casette?

Thanks for replying and happy to be directed to current resources!

 

[Woosh]

The SWX02 is a lighter version of the Bafang BPM. The way manufacturers market their motors do not follow the same standard so do take the marketing stuff with the appropriate dose of scepticism.

for example: motor power. This is not what it says on the label.
Take the BBSes, Bafang big money spinner. The BBS01 is rated as 250W, the BBS02 500W and BBSHD 1000W.
BBS01 is rated 36V 15A (540W), BBS02 36V 25A (900W), BBSHD 48V 25A (1200W). You can see 1200W is 2.2 * 540W, not 4 times.

torque:
They do not say what controller, battery and RPM or speed the torque is measured at. Without these parameters, the reading is meaningless. The same BPM motor (20A controller, 36V 15AH Samsung 29E battery) can give 80NM at near stalling, 55NM at 6mph and 40NM at 15mph. A BBS02 (25A controller, 36V 15AH Samsung 29E battery) can give 120NM at near stalling, 70NM at 6mph and 55NM at 15mph.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Hi all,

I've been reading a lot about ebike conversion ideas lately but I think I'm forgetting more than I'm learning and my browser keeps crashing from 100's of open tabs!

Are there any quick comparison lists or tables available anywhere on the pros/cons of all the geared hub motor options? Like torque, max speed, reliability for example? I can't tell my swx02 from my q128's or my tonqxins from my xfo8's, yose power, cute, mac, cst, bpm etc etc my head is spinning!

I've searched Google, this forum and endless sphere but can't see it summarised or laid out simply anywhere.

I was ideally looking at ones labeled 250w and then getting a 52V or 48V battery and a 20A controller to increase torque for hills but it seems common (like some bafang and yose power ones) for them to be (frustratingly) labeled 350w even though the difference is effectively arbitrary anyway.

As an example I'd be looking for something like this:

Labeled watts

Size and weight

Cassette or freewheel?

Reliability (perceived/anecdotal maybe but helpful)

Torque

Max reported/recommended reliable Volts/Amps

Inrunner/outrunner (to see if they can be oil cooled)

Prices and recommended/trusted suppliers.

If there's anything out there would be a great resource.

I started out like you a couple of years back (or is that 4?) anyway finally I ended up just buying what I could afford. At that time it was a Mxus XF08 freewheel motor (the cassette version was out of stock).

There are a few guidelines:

- the smaller motors are efficient up to about 17-18 Amp controllers, 20 Amps is the beginning of hot rod territory
- the heavier motors are good for 20-25 Amps
- you want most of your Watts at the wheel not as heat in the atmosphere so moderate power is always more efficient than over the top power

This is a good reference for bafang hub motor tuning, the guy does thousands of km a year commuting: https://etrike.wordpress.com/tag/hub-motor-tuning/

 

[Domm]

I started out like you a couple of years back (or is that 4?) anyway finally I ended up just buying what I could afford. At that time it was a Mxus XF08 freewheel motor (the cassette version was out of stock).

There are a few guidelines:

- the smaller motors are efficient up to about 17-18 Amp controllers, 20 Amps is the beginning of hot rod territory
- the heavier motors are good for 20-25 Amps
- you want most of your Watts at the wheel not as heat in the atmosphere so moderate power is always more efficient than over the top power

This is a good reference for bafang hub motor tuning, the guy does thousands of km a year commuting: https://etrike.wordpress.com/tag/hub-motor-tuning/

Great info thanks!

I know you're not supposed to ask "which one's best" coz what is best is variable but....err...which ones best?! (or next best if best is very expensive) Lol

I'm 100kg, want to climb hills (on road) without much effort, not sure how to find out how steep they are (I've tried a Google) but they're the sort that probably 90% of people would get off and walk up and probably about 1km long. Bike is a specialised Sirrus 700c wheels so bike's pretty light.

 

[Woosh]

best for hill: 48V SWX02 kit but you'd need a Sunrace freewheel to replace the cassette. Next choice is XF08C. It can take 8-speed, 9-speed and 10-speed cassettes.
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits#swx02-48v-kit

 

[Domm]

Yeah I wouldn't fancy losing the cassette. Should help decision making somewhat, thanks.

 

[anotherkiwi]

XF08C with a 17 Amp controller and a wide range cassette will climb that hill and most others. Gearing is important on hub motors too, not just on mid-drives unless you want a moped in which case raw power and huge battery are the answer.