Replace / Upgrade of lcd 790 display & controller.

orcecaveman

Pedelecer
Jun 4, 2019
68
2
As my introduction thread started to get technical, I thought I best start a new thread.
So, I've bought two Seago folding bikes in really good condition but both have the same issue:
Batteries are fully charged, the display (LCD 790) lights up but there is no power assist.
Obviously my first check will be the crank sensor and pickup, but I maybe jumping the gun here, but if I find the control box or Led display panel are goosed, what would be a decent replacement / upgrade. I believe I would need to replace the control box and lcd display (790) together, so it would be a good opportunity to fit a newer type lcd display if possible?
Thanks in advance for any tips or advice and thanks to those who have already offered advice in my intro thread.
 

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vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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Before you start anything, it's worth having a quick look at the pedal sensor behind the chainwheel. There should be a gap of about one millimetre between the disc and the sensor, and it it should stay like that while you rotate the crank. Sometimes, the magnet disc comes loose on its shaft and doesn't turn with the pedals, so put some slight pressure on it with your finger while you turn the pedals to test that it's fairly tight.

Other easy to check things are the motor connector, which is about a foot from the axle on the right side. Make sure that it's pushed in all the way to the line, and check that the motor cable isn't damaged where it comes out of the motor.

The LED control panel has very little affect on function. It's a good indicator of battery condition. If it goes off by itself when pedalling, it means you have a problem with the battery, but if it stays on, your battery is probably OK.

It works like this. It has a battery voltage supply direct from the battery (red and black wires), so it works independently from anything else. When you switch it on, it activates a wire that returns battery voltage to the motor controller to power it (blue wire). That's it's first function to work as a power switch for the motor controller.

Its second function is that it has a wire that provides a signal to the motor controller (green wire)to tell it which of the three speed levels to maintain when you're pedalling. The wire has 1v for level 1, 2v for level 2 and 3v for level 3. If there's no voltage on it, the controller defaults to level 1.

The third function is to display the battery charge condition. It displays the number of LEDs along the top according to the battery voltage.

Fourth function is to switch the lights, which it does by the 5th wire (probably yellow).

To test your bike, first switch on and check that the LEDs show that you have enough voltage. Next, pull your motor controller out of the compartment in the rear part of the frame (remove cover first, which you access when the frame is folded). You then need to identify the pedal sensor connector, which will have three wires either side, probably red, black and another colour. Measure the voltage between the red and the black by sticking your probes up the back of the connector. Remove any hot-melt glue that prevents that. You should see around 5V. that tells you that the controller is switched on and active.

If you have the 5V there, measure the voltage between the black wire and the not-red one, while you turn the pedals slowly. You should see 5V switch on and off as each magnet in the disc passes the sensor, which will be something like five times per rotation. It only has to switch once to confirm that it's operating correctly.

Come back when you've done those tests.

Motor controllers are generally pretty reliable. I'll be surprised if you need a new one.
 
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orcecaveman

Pedelecer
Jun 4, 2019
68
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The LED control panel has very little affect on function. It's a good indicator of battery condition. If it goes off by itself when pedalling, it means you have a problem with the battery, but if it stays on, your battery is probably OK.

It works like this. It has a battery voltage supply direct from the battery, so it works independently from anything else. When you switch it on, it activates a wire that returns battery voltage to the motor controller to power it. That's it's first function to work as a power switch for the motor controller.

Its second function is that it has a wire that provides a signal to the motor controller to tell it which of the three speed levels to maintain when you're pedalling. The wire has 1v for level 1, 2v for level 2 and 3v for level 3. If there's no voltage on it, the controller defaults to level 1.

The third function is to display the battery charge condition. It displays the number of LEDs along the top according to the battery voltage.

To test your bike, first switch on and check that the LEDs show that you have enough voltage. Next, pull your motor controller out of the compartment in the rear part of the frame (remove cover first, which you access when the frame is folded). You then need to identify the pedal sensor connector, which will have three wires either side, probably red, black and another colour. Measure the voltage between the red and the black by sticking your probes up the back of the connector. Remove any hot-melt glue that prevents that. You should see around 5V. that tells you that the controller is switched on and active.

If you have the 5V there, measure the voltage between the black wire and the not-red one, while you turn the pedals slowly. You should see 5V switch on and off as each magnet in the disc passes the sensor, which will be something like five times per rotation. It only has to switch once to confirm that it's operating correctly.

Come back when you've done those tests. Don't waste your time doing anything else unless you see something obvious when you pull out the controller. It'll only delay you getting to the cause of your problem.
Thank you, that's brilliant advice. I shall be bringing one of the bikes home next week, so I'll go through these tests and report back.
Thanks!!!!!!!
 

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
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As my introduction thread started to get technical, I thought I best start a new thread.
So, I've bought two Seago folding bikes in really good condition but both have the same issue:
Batteries are fully charged, the display (LCD 790) lights up but there is no power assist.
Obviously my first check will be the crank sensor and pickup, but I maybe jumping the gun here, but if I find the control box or Led display panel are goosed, what would be a decent replacement / upgrade. I believe I would need to replace the control box and lcd display (790) together, so it would be a good opportunity to fit a newer type lcd display if possible?
Thanks in advance for any tips or advice and thanks to those who have already offered advice in my intro thread.
The very first job is actually to accurately measure the exact battery voltage first! On both Batteries.
When a Li-ion battery has not been used/charged for a long time, remember it discharges slowly and eventually goes below a certain value, and the normal charger will not charge it, but shows (usually) a green LED, which normally implies fully charged!
In this case, it implies EMPTY!
Its sadly a common problem, that catches many out, it happened to me 3 years ago, after a long delivery time on a new bike.....
If that is the case, and you are REALLY lucky, a local bike shop will have the special chargers to "recover" the battery(s) for you....
But I have no idea what they will charge....(Joke!)
I only know of one place that sells these chargers, but only for 36 volt batteries (I don't know what your bike uses) and they want US$100 plus postage from Sweden.....
Let us all hope that is NOT the problem!
regards
Andy
 
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orcecaveman

Pedelecer
Jun 4, 2019
68
2
The very first job is actually to accurately measure the exact battery voltage first! On both Batteries.
When a Li-ion battery has not been used/charged for a long time, remember it discharges slowly and eventually goes below a certain value, and the normal charger will not charge it, but shows (usually) a green LED, which normally implies fully charged!
In this case, it implies EMPTY!
Its sadly a common problem, that catches many out, it happened to me 3 years ago, after a long delivery time on a new bike.....
If that is the case, and you are REALLY lucky, a local bike shop will have the special chargers to "recover" the battery(s) for you....
But I have no idea what they will charge....(Joke!)
I only know of one place that sells these chargers, but only for 36 volt batteries (I don't know what your bike uses) and they want US$100 plus postage from Sweden.....
Let us all hope that is NOT the problem!
regards
Andy
Thanks Andy
Both batteries are fully charged as shown on the led controller, see picture attached
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
9,822
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Basildon
The very first job is actually to accurately measure the exact battery voltage first! On both Batteries.
When a Li-ion battery has not been used/charged for a long time, remember it discharges slowly and eventually goes below a certain value, and the normal charger will not charge it, but shows (usually) a green LED, which normally implies fully charged!
In this case, it implies EMPTY!
Its sadly a common problem, that catches many out, it happened to me 3 years ago, after a long delivery time on a new bike.....
If that is the case, and you are REALLY lucky, a local bike shop will have the special chargers to "recover" the battery(s) for you....
But I have no idea what they will charge....(Joke!)
I only know of one place that sells these chargers, but only for 36 volt batteries (I don't know what your bike uses) and they want US$100 plus postage from Sweden.....
Let us all hope that is NOT the problem!
regards
Andy
His LED panel is a sort of voltmeter. It shows a healthy voltage on the battery because all the LEDs are lit. If his battery were the cause of his non-running, not only would you see that by the LEDs not being lit, but the panel would switch off completely as soon as he started to pedal.
 
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orcecaveman

Pedelecer
Jun 4, 2019
68
2
Before you start anything, it's worth having a quick look at the pedal sensor behind the chainwheel. There should be a gap of about one millimetre between the disc and the sensor, and it it should stay like that while you rotate the crank. Sometimes, the magnet disc comes loose on its shaft and doesn't turn with the pedals, so put some slight pressure on it with your finger while you turn the pedals to test that it's fairly tight.

Other easy to check things are the motor connector, which is about a foot from the axle on the right side. Make sure that it's pushed in all the way to the line, and check that the motor cable isn't damaged where it comes out of the motor.

The LED control panel has very little affect on function. It's a good indicator of battery condition. If it goes off by itself when pedalling, it means you have a problem with the battery, but if it stays on, your battery is probably OK.

It works like this. It has a battery voltage supply direct from the battery (red and black wires), so it works independently from anything else. When you switch it on, it activates a wire that returns battery voltage to the motor controller to power it (blue wire). That's it's first function to work as a power switch for the motor controller.

Its second function is that it has a wire that provides a signal to the motor controller (green wire)to tell it which of the three speed levels to maintain when you're pedalling. The wire has 1v for level 1, 2v for level 2 and 3v for level 3. If there's no voltage on it, the controller defaults to level 1.

The third function is to display the battery charge condition. It displays the number of LEDs along the top according to the battery voltage.

Fourth function is to switch the lights, which it does by the 5th wire (probably yellow).

To test your bike, first switch on and check that the LEDs show that you have enough voltage. Next, pull your motor controller out of the compartment in the rear part of the frame (remove cover first, which you access when the frame is folded). You then need to identify the pedal sensor connector, which will have three wires either side, probably red, black and another colour. Measure the voltage between the red and the black by sticking your probes up the back of the connector. Remove any hot-melt glue that prevents that. You should see around 5V. that tells you that the controller is switched on and active.

If you have the 5V there, measure the voltage between the black wire and the not-red one, while you turn the pedals slowly. You should see 5V switch on and off as each magnet in the disc passes the sensor, which will be something like five times per rotation. It only has to switch once to confirm that it's operating correctly.

Come back when you've done those tests.

Motor controllers are generally pretty reliable. I'll be surprised if you need a new one.

Ok, so I'm now with the bikes. Just getting ready to take one on the bus. I've taken s couple of snaps....
 

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orcecaveman

Pedelecer
Jun 4, 2019
68
2
I've notice the little red led on the sensor. It doesnt light up at all when I pedal it, incase this helps?
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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If the sensor Red led doesn't blink on and off as the magnets pass by then the wiring is faulty/wrong or the sensor may not be working and faulty.
Check the wire connectors and check the wire sequence is correct, If it helps take a pic of the connection and post it here.
Being China colours can vary quite a lot but generally Black is Gnd as can be Yellow, Red or Brown is 5V usually and then the remainig colour/s what ever they may be will be the signal wire.

Another thing to try is back pedal to see if Red led blinks if so then magnet disc face need flipping for running direction to be correct.
 
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orcecaveman

Pedelecer
Jun 4, 2019
68
2
If the sensor Red led doesn't blink on and off as the magnets pass by then the wiring is faulty/wrong or the sensor may not be working and faulty.
Check the wire connectors and check the wire sequence is correct, If it helps take a pic of the connection and post it here.
Being China colours can vary quite a lot but generally Black is Gnd as can be Yellow, Red or Brown is 5V usually and then the remainig colour/s what ever they may be will be the signal wire.

Another thing to try is back pedal to see if Red led blinks if so then magnet disc face need flipping for running direction to be correct.
Tried back pedaling and nothing either. I'll delve further into it when I get home at the end of the week.
 

orcecaveman

Pedelecer
Jun 4, 2019
68
2
Hi again. I've now got back home to Spain and have started some checks as laid out by vfr400.
Heres where I'm at now....
I charged the batteries fully tried everything and it was still the same. Unfortunately it hadn't miraculously fixed itself while being in the hold of the bus

Next I removed the controller and checked all the connections. All seemed ok.
I then found the connection for the pedal sensor. I made a bridging cable to be able to test for voltages. (It wasnt going to be easy sticking a voltmeter in the back of the connection while the frame is closed).
So, as the pictures tell I have just under 5volt feed. However when I carry out the test on the green wire and black wire I have nothing. ZERO. NADA.
I've attached some more pictures. Am I right in thinking the sensor is fubarred? If so, can it be bypassed?
Theres also a couple of redundant plugs on the controller, any ideas what they would be for?
Also while I'm at this, are there any easy upgrades I can do
Finally..... who's Barry?
 

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vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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3,986
Basildon
The green wire should switch on and off with 5v when you rotate the pedals forward slowly. If you measure with the pedals stationary, you'll get 5v or 0V. If it doesn't switch and you have 5v between the red and the black, you need a new sensor. Check to see if there's a nick in the wire. It could be that one of the wires is broken inside the insulation, so as a final chance, it might be worth cutting the cable a couple of inches from the sensor and putting in new wires from there to the connector.
 
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orcecaveman

Pedelecer
Jun 4, 2019
68
2
The green wire should switch on and off with 5v when you rotate the pedals forward slowly. If you measure with the pedals stationary, you'll get 5v or 0V. If it doesn't switch and you have 5v between the red and the black, you need a new sensor. Check to see if there's a nick in the wire. It could be that one of the wires is broken inside the insulation, so as a final chance, it might be worth cutting the cable a couple of inches from the sensor and putting in new wires from there to the connector.
Thanks again for the reply. I did as you said in your earlier post. I connected the voltmeter to the green a the black wires, rotated the pedals and ...... nothing. No light from the little red led on the sensor either. I've seen they're only a couple of quid on Ebay. Are they universal (obviously if the connector and number of magnets matches)
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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There isn't much to go wrong with a pedal sensor like that. It's just a hall sensoe with three wires attached. They can be damaged by connecting too high a voltage, but that normaly makes a short that pulls down the 5V. The only other possibility I can think of is a wire pulled off or broken.

If you want to repoace it complete, any one should work, but the cheapo ones with 5 magnets are the most likely to be compatible.

To install a new one you have to remove the bottom bracket, so you need a bottom bracket tool and a crank puller that you can buy on Ebay as a pair for about a fiver.

Before reassembling the crank, test that the pedal assist function is working. You might need to flip the magnet disc.
 
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